Depth of 'Lanterns' and a Bland 'Ted Lasso'

[00:00:01] Hey everyone, it's Taking It Down. Today on the podcast we got conversations about Lanterns in its fourth episode, the sixth from this season of Ted Lasso, and a few brief TV suggestions at the top that you may enjoy. In the meantime, this is episode 296 of the podcast, and you can help us out with the upcoming episode 300.

[00:00:24] Whether you're a first-time listener or you've been a fan for a while, send in a question or a comment by using the form in the show notes. We'll use it on the air in the 300th episode. But as for this episode, let me get Adam and Donovan in here and we'll begin. I'll take projection. Adam and Donovan join me now. Welcome, welcome to the recording here.

[00:00:54] Some listeners are going to be in luck because they'll get to see Adam with his music duo Sister Ray Davies starting September 16th. That's not very far away. It's Wednesday. That's going to be in Chicago at Lincoln Hall. And then a little later in September on the 30th through October 7th when they'll be opening for Luna again. So Adam, this is your last Sunday with us for a while. It's not actually.

[00:01:24] Okay. Next week you're back? Yeah, because we're just running up to the Chicago show and then I'll be back. And then I think the following weekend I'll be here too. I'm only missing one week. One Sunday. You've got that whole slate of shows, one right after the other. We do. And the one Chicago show is kind of out to sea on its own. And then we'll power through the other ones and it's like a Wednesday to Wednesday kind of thing. This is where we ask our listeners for help, right?

[00:01:53] Because Adam's hitchhiking all these shows and he's going to need a ride. Your brother flies a plane. Can I hitchhike there? You can't afford to charter an Airbus. Sister Ray Davies, September 16th in Chicago. And we'll remind you of the later dates as they get a little closer. Go see them. It's going to be cool. They're in or near Chicago. You'll enjoy it. And you'll enjoy Luna too. I'm sure you've heard of Luna.

[00:02:20] Donovan, I was able to finish the Hulu series Furious recently. Yes. I won't go in devs. We'll keep it on the non-spoiler side. It's something we actually might pick up later. That show is an intense and amazing watch. Which I would, you know, I've still, I'm way behind on it. Still only seen those first three. But I, you know, texted you yesterday. We were talking about what we're watching.

[00:02:45] And I just had the feeling from those first three and seeing some reviews and kind of discourse now that it's all wrapped up. I want to get back into watching it and I hope we pick this one back up. Because I think we're going to regret not covering it. If we don't talk about it. You know, I was blown away by how they put all the needed dramatic beats needed for show in there. But it also felt like it never slowed down. Yeah. Relentless. Every episode runs about 54 minutes, but they all feel like 30.

[00:03:14] They're very fast. Or well-paced, I guess is what I'd actually say. I'll hold on to most of my thoughts. But some great motifs that pick back up throughout several episodes and really ties a cohesive theme. It manages to be like a procedural kind of cop show in the detective show sense. It's also so deep. So you could watch it either way or both ways.

[00:03:42] Just a note for listeners, if you haven't seen it, the crimes are pretty heavy. Yeah. It deals with some dark things. But it's worth it. I mean, it really is. Meriwether has said anything explicitly, but it's very much a show for the Epstein age. You know, kind of dealing with some of that same sort of stuff. That fallout. Yeah. And with that, let's stick with Hulu for a second. You haven't jumped into New Zealand. I haven't jumped in yet.

[00:04:12] My parents were visiting last week. I can't wait. We're talking Chad Powers. Yeah, Chad Powers makes an Auburn joke. It's still a deeply funny piece of TV. It's up there with the big laughs I get for absurd comedies that I've mentioned here before. It's serialized. Last year, I was so enamored with each week's episode being a different game week for Chad and the Catfish.

[00:04:39] But this year, you know, they decided to drop the whole season at once. And I'm trying to figure out if that was good or bad as I watch them. You know, there's like a – I mean, we've had this discussion many times. There's like the popcorn-eating part of myself that's like, I want to see it all. But I think I generally don't like a whole season drop. And I'm thinking of that, especially right now with Ted Lasso. So I'm thinking I would maybe appreciate the episodes a little less if I was just blowing through them. Mm-hmm.

[00:05:10] That one especially. Second season of Chad Powers, still funny. Maybe a hint or two more of darker things. I hope a lot of people are watching it because it's worth it. It's good. And without spoiling anything, there's a great Lane Kiffin joke in there. They know their audience. Yeah, they do. Yeah, they're able to speak the lingo in a way that feels, you know, like authentic.

[00:05:37] Like not even like ESPN talk, but like fans fan talk. Yeah. Like the kind of jokes that fans make, which I appreciate. It feels very – it's very – somebody loves it an awful lot. You can tell it's very loving to college football while also being a satire of many absurd aspects of college football because college football by its very nature is absurd. Adam, you will appreciate that.

[00:06:03] Chad Powers absolutely folds in the right-wing viewership and makes fun of that in college football. It's great. It's ripe for the picking. Exactly. Why not? We won't comment on Dark Matter this week, but we'll – might return to it yet, especially as it builds, as its season continues. It's aired three episodes on Apple TV. I recommend it as well for listeners.

[00:06:29] It's a highly done thriller with some good science fiction, some head-twisting science fiction elements that cohere well. Don't think you'd be confused. Yeah. It's cohesive. Like both seasons, I have this weird feeling about it where it's like – like it is a science fiction show. Like it's made up. Like it's big – but I'm like it's so grounded. And Joel Edgerton really like centered like the emotional performance.

[00:06:57] And it's like it's about like choices and having things or not having things and families. It's really relatable. And there's a science fiction aspect that brings all this stuff up. But if you are – some people are like, you know, I don't like sci-fi. I don't like sci-fi. I think if you don't really like sci-fi, this is possibly the show for you because the point is not the science fiction. Although there's some really fun and cool and innovative stuff that they do with that. It's not spaceships and alien science fiction. Yeah.

[00:07:26] Yeah, no pew-pew. But yeah, Jennifer Connelly this season is really – Yeah. Not stealing it but holding her own and really good. Yeah, I agree. In many ways in the first season, she was some of the character's object of desire. And they did a good job of making her a person, a character. But this season, she gets to do more because just the way the setup is. And I think that's fantastic evolution.

[00:07:55] And I think making her – not making her but like having her kind of be the object in the first season completely fits with the themes that the show is exploring. You know, it's not a bug. It did a good job, I think. And letting her step into that role. She's good, you know? She knows how to act. She really is. She knows how to act at this point. Yeah. Let's get into our major discussions.

[00:08:20] Over on HBO, we got Lanterns based on the Green Lantern comics from DC. Here, Lantern veteran Hal Jordan trains Jon Stewart to be a new Lantern. Probably his replacement. That's plenty of tension between the two. Hal is played by Kyle Chandler and Jon is played by Aaron Pierre. We've all finished episode four. We're gearing up for episode five. The third episode was the one that solidified Adam's interest and my interest in Lanterns fully.

[00:08:51] So the question I guess I got for the three of us is, did this fourth episode continue to draw you into the story? I hate that I miss talking about the third episode because I think part of what I liked about this episode is how the third episode explains things in the first two episodes. And now because of what we've learned in the third episode, it's kind of broadened our understanding of these characters.

[00:09:17] So yeah, you know, it's not like the greatest show on planet Earth, but I think like they do a good job of like it moves at a fairly good pace. And I remain interested in the characters. Like Donovan said, if the third episode brings it to it, it also kind of sets the table for four. Which I mean, that's not really groundbreaking analysis to say more about these characters. Therefore, we're more invested when we see more story.

[00:09:45] But I think without three, I'm not sure that, you know, this kind of opened up the do I need to get on Reddit and see what people think about certain mysteries happening. You know, there's just a lot going on now. And I think that they have sold me on caring about enough people on screen that I am taking the ride with them. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:10:10] I felt like I cared more about Hal this week, where his performance wasn't as nuanced until this fourth episode. And there were reasons for it that I think we got in three and four. I am. Oh, I'm sorry, Blaine. I was just going to say Kyle Chandler just gave it some more nuance. And it was just subtle. I am always kind of a fan. And this may be like me making excuses for like bad TV. I do kind of like those first two episodes.

[00:10:39] I think like his performance and our view of Hal was coming through John. So we didn't see that nuance. And now we're seeing more Hal. We've seen John's backstory. We've seen more of Hal. Now we're starting to get a fuller understanding. I've had a, you know, I think it was the fifth season or the penultimate series of the Americans. Everyone kind of hated. And I thought it was brilliant because it's like you're supposed to be frustrated. Like they're getting frustrated.

[00:11:09] You're frustrated. I feel like that was doing that. Although that may be like just an excuse for like finding an excuse for not doing a good job for two episodes. Yeah, you may be right though. I love the back and forth between Hal and John. To me it's become a lot less irksome than it was in episode one. And it's a lot more funny. And I do think that that was just getting some of that backstory. Mm-hmm. And seeing exactly why there is a back and forth.

[00:11:39] And I thought this episode deepened the mystery and made for a more interesting set of conflicts. Yeah, I agree. I'll save specifics of course for later. We don't talk specifics here. It's tough to get much more specific other than to say the character development payoff is nice. Yeah. You know, because you kind of have to have some of the plot points happen. I don't know.

[00:12:03] I think this, and I know we're about to talk about Ted, did a nice job with this idea of challenging assumptions that we have about each other. And kind of breaking those down. You know, John and Hal maybe they see a one-dimensional thing when they look at one another in episode one. And now it's becoming more nuanced. As are the other characters. And we see a similar relationship thing happen in Ted this week. Yeah. Although it's kind of a funny mirror.

[00:12:30] Can't you see them in the writer's room saying, and how do we do that? Oh, let's have John make a joke this week. And it's, you know, it's kind of smart stuff. Or, yeah, I just, I love too that it's like, I do think that third episode was crucial. Because like stuff that, especially you, Blaine, were bringing up was really because like we had this narrow view of these two guys. Like, okay, John's a Boy Scout. Is he? Is he really a Boy Scout? Is that his nature? Or is there? More to him, you know?

[00:13:00] Yeah. We learn a lot about, you know, they strive to be, emotionless isn't the right word, but almost like Zen disconnected, distant. Yeah. I mean, what's the, I'm kind of struggling to articulate what the idea, I mean, the practical term is like, it's just easier if you don't have a family. Yeah. You know, or friends or any of these things. But I think you start to see the weight of those things on them both. And I think they did a good job.

[00:13:29] You know, Blaine kind of brought up, and I'm, I'm re-litigating episode three, but I just like, like for John, it's like, it's like, why is he doing some of these things? And then when you have what goes on in episode three and you realize like, oh, he's fearless. But we have fear for a reason. Right. You know?

[00:13:49] Well, and also the fact that if, if his parents had been pushing him into almost anything else, you'd go, these stage parents, you know, at a certain point in adulthood, you have to go, I'm my own person now. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And he, he just seems to be, in episodes one and two, like just following the script. Yep. He's a good soldier. There could be some breakdown in that coming. Well, we mentioned it last time. Adam did briefly. I was trying to set you up there.

[00:14:18] It's a perfect segue. I loved it. We've been with Ted Lasso week to week. It's of course, Apple TV's, their crown jewel. This season, it's, it's fourth. Ted Lasso's back in England ahead of the ladies squad for AFC Richmond. So we're discussing the sixth episode of the fourth season. We won't talk spoilers here, but six out of 10 episodes.

[00:14:44] It should be that we got a good sense of what we think the season is thus far or how we feel about it. We're getting really close to being able to make that assumption. Do you have a feel for it yet? What it's about? Yeah. How you feel. How I feel about it. As close, as close as it is to being near the end. It's funny because there were things that we asked for early on. You know, we want to know more about the team. We want to see even hijinks with the team.

[00:15:12] We want to see Roy doing something new. We want to see whatever. We got a lot of those things in this episode. And I thought it was a very just okay episode of Ted Lasso. I thought it was kind of tedious at times. But, you know. I guess this is like slightly spoiler even to mention, but, you know, it is a holiday themed episode dropped. Just like, was that season two that did the Christmas one?

[00:15:41] Which I also thought was a just okay episode. Something about Ted Lasso. All I could think about was children with halitosis in this episode. Who's got the state of breath here? I do think that they're more in their groove with the past couple episodes. I do think they did some good stuff this episode. I agree with Adam that some of the, it felt like we were lingering some spots where it's like, okay, okay, I get it, I get it.

[00:16:10] Which has been the story of the season. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. The onion that did the thing that you said, Donovan. It's a new episode of Ted Lasso. Just stock images of people hugging. Yeah. And it can, I thought that cracked me up because like that would probably be my biggest like meta critique of like the show as a whole. Especially season two through four. Is that kind of like, okay, we're all going to talk about our feelings and be good. And be friends.

[00:16:40] And hug you down. We got each other, you know. People can't say how they're feeling. I kind of, I realize I kind of sound like a Scrooge. Like I'm not against Ted Lasso. It's nice. I think it makes people happy. It makes me chuckle. I don't feel bad. I don't feel worse after watching it. Like these are all good things. But also I do, I do think that that's a valid critique and maybe even something that's holding it back from being truly great.

[00:17:03] Well, I think, and how do you recreate, to me the two things, when I think about season one, obviously there are some, some generally great takeaways. But I always think of Roy's injury. When he like guts it out and he's injured and you have this montage where you see somebody who's loved this one thing their entire life and it's taken away from him. Yeah. Roy's injury and exit in, I think it was the penultimate episode of season one.

[00:17:31] And, you know, and you see this guy who has put everything into this sport and you know he's at the end, like deal with that. And they don't, I don't remember how subtle it was, but I remember thinking like, oh, this feels earned. And then obviously the season long lasso way, make the pass. You know, that whole thing also felt very earned. And these are like, maybe it's because it's the, it was the low hanging fruit for them to like show that first level of success.

[00:18:00] But now all of these little mini victory therapy sessions that Donovan alluded to are just kind of like, I don't know. They don't feel as impactful anymore. And they really haven't since season one. There's just little evolution. But the reason that we watch every week in my house is it's still like, you know, like Donovan said again, like we're not, what are you expecting from Ted? Right.

[00:18:29] You know, like it's, it's pleasant to watch. Yeah. I think you completely summed it up, Adam. Like, I do think that like, like a completely fair thing to say about Ted Lasso is, is that like, what do you expect? It is what it is. And I think it is actually very upfront about that. I don't think it's really trying to be something it's not. So like, if that's for you, great. If it's not for you, also great. I appreciate that. There's like a level, like at least there's like a level of honesty and it is what it is.

[00:18:56] You know, I think that there could be some pushback on our comments here. There were maybe two. Oh, for sure. Two. Obviously, there can always be pushback because we're just morons with opinions. But there were two relationship adjacent things that happened this week that were kind of like, could be heavy hitting maybe if you were in a specific place in life. And I understand that. But, and the team gelling and all of that is nice.

[00:19:23] I also, unfortunately, you know, when like, it's like the Mad Men effect, you know, everything is the Mad Men effect to me. But when you watch it the first time, you're like, Don's a piece of shit. But, you know, you really want to be Don. And then you watch it again and you're like, shit, I'm Pete. I'm definitely Pete in almost every situation. At least in the inner monologue. I'm just petulant and selfish and complaining.

[00:19:50] In the same way, the struggles of the introvert and the outsider to the team are like, damn, that her anxieties and I don't know, that was a bit. That was okay, I thought. Yeah, it wasn't bad. We're veering towards spoilers here, I guess. Yeah, we are. Well, I can say these things. It's been an inconsistent season as much as season three was as well.

[00:20:17] I felt that this episode recycled a lot of things with different characters and with the same characters in some cases. It's an okay show. It's one that's hard to judge and critique because it's so beloved and it's not necessarily wrong in its approach. And we know so many people who love it.

[00:20:42] But I did find this episode very, very bland and almost pointless. We'll get into it more with spoilers. But there were some things in here that I liked and made me laugh. And there were some things in here that was like, why was this even a plot point in this season? Yeah. You know, like. Oh, yeah, exactly. I will bring up some good points in spoilers. Yeah, yeah. I agree. Like, it sometimes feels like kicking a puppy because it's like, it's not hurt. Like, it's not, it's not bad. It's not harmful.

[00:21:12] Like, I even, like, I even look forward to watching it. Yeah. You know? I do too. Yeah. It's like, it's like, it's not that it's poorly done, but it ain't Mad Men. But what would, even when I ask myself that, it's like, frustration only comes from wishing something would be better. Right. And like, if I analyze that position, what do I want out of this show? That, right, right. If I take it one step further, what am I really asking this show to be? Yes.

[00:21:42] It should be exactly what it is. I think it can be what it is and also. Be like a sleeker version of it? Just evolve is the word I'm going to continue to use. So let's do this. Let's take a spoiler break. And on the other side, we'll talk about lanterns and tip lasso with details. We're sorry to interrupt the show you're listening to, and we're going to prove that by keeping this ad short.

[00:22:07] This is Seth and Michelle, the hosts of Movie Friends, and we're so respectful of your time that we're not going to use the full 60 seconds to promote our show. Has this ever been done in the history of advertising? Never. New episodes release every Monday, and with over 300 episodes and counting, there is sure to be something for everyone. We're a community-driven show that believes film discussion can be friendly and without pretension. We've been called relaxing. Intelligent. Zesty. And fun. There must be a catch, though, right?

[00:22:35] Like we probably blather on for four-hour episodes. That's the best part. We don't blather. Not a lot, at least. Blather is such a good word. A truly underutilized word. Yeah. What were we doing? I don't remember. Movie Friends. Fun conversations from across film history. Visit our website, moviefriendspodcast.com, and listen to our show everywhere you get your podcasts. And we did it with plenty of time to spare.

[00:23:03] How many, and please keep this on the air, how many times have you asked a man to draw you in the nude in your office? If I had a nickel? You'd have three. Yeah, as you can hear, we're back in the middle of Nebraska, the setting for the TV show of Lanterns on HBO. I did shout coward at it the whole time because we never really got a good peen shot. Nope.

[00:23:32] Just a little teeny charcoal one. We're getting this out of the way up top, aren't we? Well, it's called the weenie, which has more than one meaning here. I saw somebody online say if they spent all that time explaining the weenie, which if you go to the Wikipedia page now on how Disney designs parks, and you look at the weenie, there is a footnote that says this was referenced in the HBO production Lanterns.

[00:24:00] So, obviously, it drove some traffic to the Imagineers this week. But if it was all an elaborate setup to make a weenie joke, I mean, I have to say hats off to the team. That's, I'm not mad. Yeah. It's there in the title. So, we get the mystery of whom in this Nebraska town is the Manhunter, which is an alien who takes the form of humans and slowly takes control of the environment. We'll back up a little.

[00:24:27] When Hal is with Sinestro and the episode picks up where the second one left off, you see such a wonderful change in attitude and performance from Kyle Chandler. He drops almost all of that cockiness. And he's a little more in awe and careful, but he's still demanding. So, it's like he's got, it's not that he's a character change, you know, the full turnaround, but he's still saying, you know, enjoy your alone time.

[00:24:56] But at the same time, he's, he defers to Sinestro a little bit more. Well, it's almost like in some ways, Sinestro is dad, right? And so, like, that's the relationship. Yeah, mentor-mentee at the least. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's also shot in a set that has no right angles, it felt like. Mm-hmm. For the most part, I thought that was kind of a cool set. Have y'all ever been replaced by Johnny Tryhard? It happened to me once. It happens to me daily.

[00:25:26] I was, I was a space cop for the Guardians. And. And now you podcast. Yeah. Yeah, I love that line that Johnny Tryhard. It's interesting, though, in this scene that Hal says, all he does is follow orders in reference to John. Mm-hmm. And later, he doesn't follow orders by taking the ring and citing the oath. And I think that we have seen him. I think this is where, like, those first two episodes worked for me.

[00:25:54] Because I think we've seen John do some things that are not related to orders. Outside of orders. Or an interesting interpretation of orders. And I think part of that, like, I think they did a good job of establishing it. It's like, it's because, like, as Sinestro makes clear for us, right? Like, just because he's fearless, this is not all a strength for him. Well, at the same time, he clearly can think for himself. He's not an automaton.

[00:26:23] Also, this was a funny episode. The line, you'd think the Manhunter is trapped inside of Macon's weenie? Got me. I liked when he bought the gun and just dropped it on the table. I was like, that actually made me laugh. Big wad of money. Where's he getting this money, by the way? The Guardians? They pay these guys? I mean, I assume they have a per diem. They're staying in a motel. It's not the best. They probably get mileage, too.

[00:26:53] I gotta look into this Lantern gig, guys. You know, the Guardians are pretty cosmically powerful. So I assume that they can scrounge up some dollars if they really need to. Do you think that they ride together in that rental because they both can report the mileage? Yeah. Double dipping. There you go. I did appreciate, you know, just kind of the fun stuff with this episode.

[00:27:18] Like, just some nods to some of the, you know, because all the other Green Lanterns, as Kyle says, are aliens. So we even get the mention, I don't remember his name, but the squirrel one is a real lantern. Yeah, I figured so. So, good stuff well done that the sheriff doesn't hesitate or him and Hall about helping Hal and John. Other shows would have had her decision be something of a dilemma. So it's good that she just jumped right in. She understands the assignment. The town could blow up if they don't get the Manhunter.

[00:27:47] I mean, she's seen it, right? Like, it's happened in front of her eyes. Yes. I'm assuming that four people getting shot in a football game she's not crazy about either, so. Yeah. Well. You know, other shows would have had her debating this for 15, 20 minutes or a chunk of the episode. Does this bring any suspicion on her to you guys? Yeah. It did, yeah. Because it was pretty, it was sudden, but at the same time, you know, maybe it was a good writing, but also good writing in the sense that we're supposed to suspect something.

[00:28:16] Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. It's like, I could be, I would feel not tricked either way. Everyone is sus. Which I appreciate. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Everyone is sus. And I think the thing that I have to keep reminding myself is this is a world where aliens exist as documented fact. Right. Like, they don't really bat an eye at, you know, them showing up or Green Lanterns existing or any, you know what I mean?

[00:28:44] Like, there's already like a hurdle of this procedural, there would have been that element of like, we have to convince her that this is a real threat. That's already out the window, which changes the dynamic quite a bit. Yeah, that's a good point because in the, it's not here, but you know, this is in the same universe as the Superman movie. And right at the beginning of the new Superman movie, they lay out that basically like metahumans, things like that has been going on for like 300 years. Right.

[00:29:12] So like people are very familiar and comfortable with this concept of, of superpowered people. Or at least like accepting, I guess, maybe not comfortable, but like, like Adam said. Do either of you find the idea of the Manhunter a little vague? I know that they're clearing it up slowly and it is well explained, but it's still nebulous. Until, I think maybe the last couple of scenes this week. I think we're going to... And I'm still in a little foggy on it.

[00:29:41] I think I can answer as someone who knows less, like infinitely less about this than Donovan does. And you, Glenn. You know when you're watching something and they're not explaining everything, but you get a sense that they know what it is? And you're kind of like, that's fine. They don't have to tell me everything. Whereas other, like a stranger things, you're like, they're making this up as they go along. You don't really believe the lore as much. Here I'm like, whatever. They can dole out this information as they, as they wish.

[00:30:08] Because I think there's a fully formed idea behind it. I'm not super knowledgeable about Green Lanterns, but I think we're going to get more. Sorry, about the Green Lantern comic. I mostly know them from being part of the Justice League or whatever. But I think we're definitely... It seems to me like we're definitely going to get a lot more about the Guardians role in the Manhunters, the creation of the Manhunters, all that. Okay. That's my suspicion of why this is all somewhat nebulous.

[00:30:38] That feels right. I think we're going to get a little more too, right? Because it's like, right now the understanding that they have is like, well, it's just doing what it's programmed to do. It's like, is it? Is it sentient? Can it make choices? Seems like it might be able to. Before we jump into the ending, I'm glad that the hospital was referenced again. Had it not, I think I'd lose sleep over it. The creepiness of that hospital. That was a good little nod too, because like when he starts saying that stuff,

[00:31:08] it's like, no, that's actually bad. Like, you know, like it's one of those things like, it seems good, so you know it has to be bad. Will Macon basically says no one's getting sick because of this Manhunter. No, they're for the Manhunter. That's the point of him being so guarded on his ranch. A lot of my conversation will center around some of that last episode, that last scene, which is the conversation right before the car crash.

[00:31:38] I was a little confused, and I don't know if that was the purpose. It could very well be the purpose. Hal seems to be alluding that the Manhunter is Zoe, the wife of Will Macon. And John is interpreting that differently as if it's Will Macon. Am I right about that? I think you might have gotten it the other way around, because John, like there's a scene, or not the other way around, but there's a scene where like, Hal is like, well, it's Will. And John's kind of like, very obviously like, yeah.

[00:32:09] And at the end, I think it's Hal knows that it's Zoe, and John has also guessed. They both think they both... And John doesn't want to admit that it's her? No, because Hal asks him something like, when did you figure it out? And he's like, I didn't, I just guessed. So like, they're both pretty clear. And then Hal jumps out of the car. Yeah, that actually did make me laugh. He's just sorry about the rental. He just rolls out.

[00:32:40] Okay, so here's my next bit of confusion then. I thought it was supposed to be clear for me as a viewer that Zoe is the Manhunter. She all but admits that she cured the cancer. There is some information that's doled out in an interesting way here, where like, while nude, he says, this was my angel she saved. You know what I mean? And then... Yeah. But he's not saying that it's her. But then later,

[00:33:10] she is identified as the one who saved him from the cancer. So it's like, what are we to make of this? And the guy that they corner in the office who finally exclaims, I'm human, I'm human. That was a great scene, by the way. Intense. You're right. And weird. Weird. Weird. And I think, you know, you were talking about the conversation with Sinestra earlier. I think we haven't seen... We've seen Hal come up with a harebrained plan to get thrown in jail so far.

[00:33:40] And like, fly around. Other than that, he's not really demonstrated a lot of like, savvy. Yeah. Or competence, even. And in the conversation with Sinestra and then this like, negotiation with this guy around the office desk, I was like, oh, there he is. You know what I mean? This is... Experience is kicking in. Mm-hmm. Now, the way that he handled that, I thought that was good. But when that guy, when cornered

[00:34:08] and is asked who it is, who does he respond with? Who the manhunter is? But he suggests it's making... Maybe even he straight up says it's making. I think he straight up says it is. And then they leave. And obviously, Hal asked the obvious question, why are you not upset about the woman that you fucked up with twice now? I mean, Hal's got his thinking cap on in this episode. Yeah. I had mine on too because when they started going to Bone Town,

[00:34:37] I told Natalie how long until he realizes he's having sex with an alien. Oh, yeah. Well, according to him, not aliens. Something else. Because you can't just run them through the alien detector. They're robots, I think, right? They're supposed to be robots. Yeah. I think so. Some form of robot. This episode, I thought, did three things. It did it pretty well. They deepened the mystery. They put Hal and John on the same playing field in terms of what they know.

[00:35:07] And I thought that made the conflict worse. First and third, I thought it demonstrated Hal's strengths as a Lantern, like Adam was just talking about, to show he's actually got some worth in holding the ring. It's something they've done a little bit in the first episode, but here we get it, that when he goes with his gut, he hadn't been wrong, which he thoroughly is happy to admit. Yeah, and it's not just, you see like the physical side of it, so to say, of like flying around or he flies in

[00:35:36] and grabs that crooked oligarch or whatever that John is supposed to be sniping. You know, he doesn't have to rely on the tech here to be competent, to use that word again. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Hal's good his job. That makes the conflict worse for viewers because you're questioning now, well, should Hal be replaced? Does he deserve that? And, you know, John makes the decision not to do it. Yet.

[00:36:06] Yet. He claims he still will. Yeah. I thought he'd avoid being too ham-fisted with Hal's competence, though. I know we've seen it in the first episode, but, you know, his gut's not wrong. There's something to be said about him being right every time, even if he does insist on telling everyone. I think it did what it set out to do and had my interest the whole time. Thought it was good. His, again, to go back to that office scene, his,

[00:36:35] which was at the end of a very odd sequence that we're not even talking about, the slaughterhouse. That was really strange. It was supposed to be a little unsettling, I think. Deeply unsettling. It's to tip you. It's to tip you toward being off balance. And it did that. And then, that way, when you get in there with that gentleman who may or may not be an alien, you're still confused about these, these cows. Everything about it was... You're primed. Prime. Good work there.

[00:37:05] Everything about it was surreal. And I think maybe we're even supposed to ask, like, when the cow comes in and it is killed, but in a very merciful way. You know? I mean, but is it merciful to just explode in a thousand pre-cut pieces? Yeah. You know, like, what is the use of technology? It's like, it is removing the pain, but also, it's a pile of flesh on the floor by the end of it. Also,

[00:37:35] you talked about the humor in this episode as someone who does not eat meat. I also felt very vindicated by John's comments there. But when Hal uses the ring to just slowly cover them before, as he's like, clocking what's about to happen, that was really funny. That was funny. The other thing, to get to the negotiation, I think we're supposed to think a lot about connection and family relationships, all of that this week and like,

[00:38:04] what it takes that I think Hal thought that it was a bluff, but at the same time, he's like, if your parents have to die, your parents, obviously it's easier when it's your parents than his, but, and people online have pointed out, you know, say a few episodes ago, John makes the bird that's able to stay fully formed even when he's unconscious and when he finds out that Hal's mom had cancer, I think it was his mother, the digger kind of falters for a second. Clearly,

[00:38:34] he's upset by this idea of something happening to his folks, right? Like, it's, it may be too easy to say that something's gonna happen with his parents and it'll be the galvanizing event that makes him take the ring, but, I don't know, that's a very popular theory being thrown around, it seems like. It was definitely put in there that Hal says that his parents are dead and that his mom died of cancer and that his dad

[00:39:03] died as a hero as he wanted to be seen. I thought that was a great, you haven't seen him, obviously he's doing character studies of like, in like a criminal procedural kind of way, but that was a pretty insightful thing to say about his dad. That was a nuanced take on a parent-son relationship. Yeah, and I thought it fit in because we just haven't really seen that level of awareness and insight from Hal yet, so it kind of is setting up, obviously it's there, regardless of if that theory on

[00:39:32] parents plays out, I thought his John faltering a bit when even something sad related to someone who's not his mother is mentioned, we're meant to be thinking about his upbringing on the heels of episode three. Absolutely. I'm curious, a little curious how this will play out, and it's fine if they don't go this direction, but like, he obviously loves his parents very much, respects them, obeys them, but like, it was straight up abusive, like,

[00:40:03] episode three is one long sequence of child abuse, you know, frankly. I'm just, I wonder if that's ever going to pop up as an element or if that's just going to stay subtext for our understanding of John and his character. I don't know. We'll now get into spoilers for Ted Lasso. In the sixth episode of this season, titled Don't Jump Around Much Anymore. Talk about telling you what's going to happen, huh? When I saw that title, I didn't wonder what in the hell they could be talking about, but it makes

[00:40:33] I completely was like, oh, he's going to fuck up his knee jumping somehow. And then it happened, and it's like, okay. Our basic storylines all revolve around New Year's Eve and the break that the team continues. They involve the team on a yacht with Crazy Sophie and the question of if Alice will show up. Ted and his ex-wife Michelle at the pub so that Henry can earn a few quid.

[00:41:02] And Rebecca, Keely, and Roy heating up a vodka release party for none other than the Jamie Tart. So we get Phil Dunster as a guest this week. I thought it was a really bland episode with some fine moments here and there, but nowhere near enough fine moments. I will talk about the good first. I thought it was enjoyable to see Alice actually have a personality as she plays her girlfriend Camille. One note characters

[00:41:32] just don't cut it and this may have been too long coming but we do get to see her cut up, laugh, see her as she sees herself. Yeah, no, I agree. That was good. Yeah. Something other than, you know, because so much of her personality seems like it can be boiled down to like intense or maybe even straight up into angry like I'm mad at you that you didn't do what I wanted. So good, good,

[00:42:01] good look into another softer side of her. I thought Jamie Tart brought a lot of humor to the episode especially his back and forth with Frenemy Roy. The Tart character is more of a caricature than he used to be, I think, but it's not quite overdone. Phil Dunster sang Barth the Lord. I was about to say that was my favorite moment. And, you know, we talked about this. These are all the things Adam was alluding to in non-spoilers. Brett Goldstein

[00:42:31] gets out of his one-note funk as well by having Roy doped up after his knee blows out again. We get to see him play, thanks to the writers, I suppose. He played more human, more silly obviously, but he was even more human during the Jump Around song. That's a song every man loves. You gotta jump around. Is it? When that started, me and Natalie looked at each other and said, what is this show?

[00:43:03] These guys would love Wisconsin football games. That's true, they would. I don't know. I could see these football players getting into a particular song. Just having a good time. You think Roy doesn't have songs, I don't think. What do you mean? He doesn't have favorite songs? He wouldn't attach, this song is happening, therefore I must do this. It felt out of character. It did. Huh.

[00:43:32] It did for me at first until I just rolled with it and kind of laughed with them even going head to head, almost butting heads as they were singing it. Their bro ship had to be on display in some way. Also, he had to blow his knee out somehow. Yeah. He probably shouldn't have been jumping around. Hooking up with somebody in a kitchen is a way

[00:44:01] him moaning lying on the floor off camera is still one of the funnier moments of this season, I think. As she just goes back to her job while he's like, I'm fine, fuck! Jamie insisting on carrying him was a pretty funny moment. I did like that. It was fun to see Phil Dunster again, especially after seeing him in Rooster. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. He was welcome. I enjoyed this. I enjoyed, even like you said,

[00:44:31] he's a little bit over the top, but I still enjoyed having him. Some of his writing, you could tell, I think, that some of the writing staff went to the Oasis reunion last summer and maybe dug up some funny old Liam quotes. It seemed a bit of a tribute at times. There were a few lines where I was like, oh, that's just straight up like a Liam tweet. That had to be fun for him to get the call to just come in and act like a complete

[00:45:01] moron for a few days on set and then off you go. Oh, I assume so. He seemed like he was enjoying himself. And he and Rebecca having the almost moment of kissing for New Year's. That's pretty funny. That was kind of funny. That made me laugh. A non-dialogue moment too. Ted absolutely needed Michelle's permission before he can have a story with the stage manager, but I don't think it needed a whole episode to set it up to get that permission,

[00:45:31] even though not having Michelle and Henry show up at some point was beginning to feel a little weird. You didn't like that? I didn't either, but you brought it up every week? Yeah, it was just weird that he's not been shown having some sort of contact with them, but then having it here was just kind of boring. I would say, is it bad that I really don't care about Henry? Henry, I'm fine if he's not in another episode. I'm glad that Ted is a good dad. The payoff maybe for

[00:46:02] bringing the family back in is that we've wondered will he get back with his wife? Is it because he's actually been hanging out with her again and he's doing great and that has shown to not be the case? And they continue to kind of play with it. They set up the midnight kiss in a few different spots in this episode, not with them, and you're like, is this the night that they get back together? Yeah. But it was a nice setup to then go, nah. I'm glad they didn't and I

[00:46:31] appreciate that they can be really good friends. Yeah. And speaking of subversion, I thought it was great stuff with the curveball with Beard being shot down. He's the weirdo character who has life handed to him on a platter, it seems, most of the time. You know, he's a little less developed than the rest of the cast compared to Ted or Roy Kent or Kelly. So to see him not get the kiss at the midnight, I felt kind of real

[00:47:01] and also funny. You know why good things come to beard? I'm not a huge beard guy, but... I'm not a huge beard guy, but I do think in small doses he's really good. And I just like that there was this recognition of... Because I was thinking it as they were talking, I kept thinking, isn't she a little young for him? And it was just addressed flat out. But good things happen for him because he continues to put himself out there. And he

[00:47:31] did this time, and it goes to show, every time you put yourself out there, it's not going to work. trying is the first step to failing, as a great man once said. That's the bravery of it. So the bad, I thought, hindered this one a lot. The worst of the lot was the cliche that didn't hear all of Roy's mistake, purposeful name mix up with Dr. Aaron. That was so predictable and it's been done in every sitcom

[00:48:01] since 1960. It has, I think, maybe it would have been okay if it's still like sitcom-y, but she created her own downfall. Yes. She did this to herself. Oh, yeah. Is her personality a little too teenage girl? Yeah. Yes. Should she be phasing out of that? I think

[00:48:30] it's admirable, like an actual good life quality to be bright eyed about something like I'm going to run this women's football team. I think this is the right thing to do. I'm excited about it. Everyone else should be excited. You need, I think, maybe last week they're like, we need dreamers and practical people. That's nice. But in this realm, yeah, she can be a bit tiresome to me. also very predictable was Rebecca's

[00:49:00] boyfriend showing up at the end. That was why I was like, why was this even a plot point? End of last episode to this one, it did nothing for me. I feel like they were just like, we got to give her something to do. I like him being so unthreatened by Jamie that it's not even like, why are you allowed to kiss that guy? You know, that was kind of funny. That was a funny little joke. I was happy that did not happen. Yeah. Other than that, I'm kind of sick of him. Here's the thing with Ted Lasso,

[00:49:29] especially this season and maybe the third as well, this could apply. The three of us can see the writing in black and white. And I think a really good show, I'm thinking furious now, it's hard to tell when the writing was doing writing, when the writers were pinning an episode. Here, it's like we could be in the writer's room and pretty much say, I know exactly how this all went down. I think that's a good point. I think that like, not, and I still haven't watched the latest season, but the

[00:49:59] last season I watched of the bear, for example, I felt like me, like I tried to articulate that a couple times. Like I felt like I could see the strings maybe. And I think that is kind of like, that's kind of the way I felt about that. You know, like I'm like, okay, I see what you, I couldn't do it. I'm not a writer, but like, I see what you're doing here. I thought the only thing in this one that maybe was outside of that is Ted's ex telling him that he had

[00:50:29] the story wrong. Yeah, that was actually pretty good. the post-divorce relationship with her counselor and, you know, her saying, no, I really do too because we have only seen, it's not a show that does this a lot, like only showing one person's perspective that is then challenged. And I thought that was, yes, that was good storytelling, especially in a show where like, he's about to go to the window and see his team playing a pickup game of

[00:50:58] soccer at midnight. You know what I mean? Like, it deals in cliches a lot more than like, divorce was really hard on me too. Yeah, she admits how lonely she was that she was the one who pursued the therapist. Did we need a whole episode for her to sit down and say that? I don't think so. Although it does chip away a lot of the story that Ted told himself made, it was like a motivating factor for season one and two Ted, right? Mm-hmm. And it gets

[00:51:28] undercut here. But he's obviously already kind of moved past it. Yes. Yeah, he's in a healthier, he's obviously resentful, but probably in a healthier place. The last thing I thought that was bad, which was in one of the last scenes, is having Alice go from worried about the party to glad that she's more welcomed by Gemma and the rest of the team and then upset that Gemma tells the team she's worried about not being liked. That just

[00:51:58] felt like, oh great, we're going to do this conflict again next week. This is the Pete Campbell effect that I'm talking about. Have you never been that person that was like, this actually went better socially than I thought it would? and then you find out that someone has had pity on you in some way and tried to, without your knowledge, smooth things over? It's infuriating. They want to set up Alice and Gemma to kiss, right?

[00:52:28] Yeah, right? Gosh, I don't know with Camille being such a sturdy character even in her short screen time. I don't know. I'm not saying it's a good thing. No, I don't mean the plot line. I mean like, I'm not saying the character would be making a good choice, but I did kind of have a feeling that like, I wonder if that is a little bit of the reason we got her partner in there too. It's like, okay, now we know this other side of her as they, there's definitely like,

[00:52:58] maybe it's just friendship, right? But maybe there's a little bit of a spark there too when they're talking on the boat. Well, not friendship, camaraderie, I guess. They're in the same sport doing the same thing. I agree with Donovan and I think there's also the element of, you know, Paige is the player. She shouldn't be a coach yet. She had something taken away from her. So when she sees them, there's that pang of what might have been. And I think, I mean, we're supposed to, it is her ex, right? They say that.

[00:53:28] Or do they just say they played together? They played together and she was really, really hard on her. I don't think they had a relationship. Okay. Or that we know that they had a relationship. Perhaps they did. It has seemed implied and the tension that Donovan is alluding to, I also read into that. Yeah, they played it that way now that you mention it, but I don't think it's been said. I think that's it for us. Remember that if you do have to jump around for a song or stretch for work, just make sure you're

[00:53:56] wearing your knee brace. Sensible shoes. Exactly. Take care of yourself. Have a great week, everyone.