The Good, The Bad, and 'The White Lotus' Finale; Plus, a Plethora of TV

[00:00:01] Hey everyone, it's Taking It Down and the three of us are a part of the Alabama Take Family Podcast. This podcast uses the design of making the first several minutes spoiler free, but then we get into ideas and specifics and thoughts on a series or movie after a break.

[00:00:18] We are a working class TV podcast in that we feel a part of the regular folks and we attempt to view entertainment through that lens and demonstrate that just because someone's of a working class doesn't mean they don't have in-depth thinking happening at the same time. And we like to think about what we've seen and watched and toss those ideas to one another. We hope you enjoy it.

[00:00:42] There are costs with podcasts and websites, so if you will go to thealabamatake.com, click on donate, and you'll see two choices on how you can make a one-time tip or recurring donation. It would be much appreciated. A quick note, though we release each Tuesday and a rare Thursday, we have occasional breaks built in. One of those is next week, so no podcast from us on April 22nd if you happen to listen day of.

[00:01:09] And if you do listen day of, thanks a lot. That's really cool of you. We know it can be difficult and hard to squeeze in some of the shows and then turn around and listen to them, but that's why we have the spoiler free section. And you can always come back and listen to the spoiler thoughts. As for this week's episode, in the non-spoiler section, we cover a variety of things. Various notes about television of late. Most of those are short and, of course, spoiler free.

[00:01:34] And then we'll transition into some thoughts about the new Apple TV Plus debut of Your Friends and Neighbors. Some general ideas about the Mac series hacks. And then what we thought about The White Lotus, very generally. But then in the spoiler section, it's only the third season of The White Lotus from HBO. Heavy focus on the finale. We're coming in a little late. We record on Sunday afternoon, so it takes us a week for Sunday shows.

[00:02:00] But we hope you enjoy it. May I welcome my friends and my co-hosts, Adam and Donovan. Here they are. I'll take the junction. And here they are. It is Adam. It is Donovan. Adam, I used to have a longer intro trying to detail our bona fides. So long time listener one may remember that. But the truth is you have a lot of hats that you wear. To the point that it's a problem, right, Blaine?

[00:02:29] We're going to talk to him about his hats. Adam, your dogs are starving. Stop buying hats. Chill with the hats. You worked at the University of Alabama in video and film. True. You now run an urban garden in Florence, Alabama called Kodachrome Garden. True. Garden or gardens? Gardens. Okay. Everyone can find that online in all the ways that you do. But through it all, you've been a musician. Just so everyone knows, we aren't blowing smoke on this.

[00:02:57] Tell listeners about your band Sister Ray Davies and what's... Because there's news. Yeah, we signed with a label out of London called Sonic Cathedral. London, Alabama? No. Pretty mind-blowing though because they have put out some of my favorite records and work with just insane people that are heroes. And yeah, it's really wild.

[00:03:22] It's kind of funny because my friend, my online friend, Tim, podcaster of SETI BIMCO, says every time he hits play on this podcast, he thinks I'm British. Ha ha, yeah. And there's the connection. But I mean, like, you get to be like, Dean Wareham is my label, mate. God, man. They have like a big slow dive event. Like, and this is so cool. Like the caliber of like stuff that you're here with. I also love that they love your name because I love that name.

[00:03:51] Also, just to predict into the future, you know, when Adam is away, it'll just be me and Donovan's. But you can see him in person. Get ready. Get ready for some swears. Get ready for a lot less intellect. Yeah. Lots of TV to choose from. I'm just going to run down some that we won't detail. The Pit's first season ending last Thursday. I've yet to watch it. Gonna.

[00:04:18] The Last of Us coming back for its second season tonight because we record on Sunday afternoon. The Righteous Gemstones. Also on HBO continues its fourth season. Black Mirror had a new season on Netflix over the weekend. Yep. I didn't watch any. I think I'm kind of over that show. But did y'all see any? No. And I think I'm with you in the, you know, when something is like so good that it kind of changes the way that other things operate. The first season of Black Mirror, you're like, oh, this is.

[00:04:48] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it had been done before. It was like what an update on Twilight Zone in some ways. Yeah. But now it's like, do I really need more like. Man. We're already kind of living dystopian future. I know. Yeah. We caught up to the show. You know, because it does seasons kind of irregularly. So it was either like the last one or the one before where I watched the opening episode and I was like, I like this, but I'm not like compelled to watch it. And I've just kind of fallen off. Yeah.

[00:05:18] I think we all started that last. Excuse me. Not this last season, like this weekend, but the one before. If they want to get my interest back, bring back Jon Hamm and the pig. Well, hey, I'm going to talk about him in a little bit, but. The pig? Jon Hamm. Get it? Jon Hamm. Oh. Is that two M's or one? Yeah. Oh, come on. Donovan, I've been haunted this week.

[00:05:46] You and I used Thursday as a release date to discuss the whole of the Netflix series, Adolescence. And that show, specifically the final episode, has just stayed with me. And we're not going to detail it all over again. Everybody can go listen to that. But I just see images from that damn last episode when I close my eyes. Yeah, it's good. It's good. It's good. I have seen it argued that it is even a public good. I don't want to go too much into it since we already talked about it.

[00:06:15] Right, but. Part of what keeps it stuck in your mind is the details. It just nails the little details, and the little details are what catch you. And it doesn't try to cover every single little thing. No. Yeah. It very much is what it is, which is to its strength. I do bring a note because it is television, and we cover a lot of television. Unless I've misread it or it's changed, the British Parliament had considered making the series a part of their education's curriculum.

[00:06:44] Kind of standard viewing kind of thing. Is there a case to be made for that, or is that a little too pushing something down people's throat? Honestly, I mean, maybe it is. But every so often, the school that I work at, we'll get together and look at our demographics and like, okay, we've got more. One of the things that's been going on for a long time is we're not getting young men the same way we're getting young women. And that's across the country. And part of it is like, I can't stop young men from listening to Joe Rogan. So I don't know.

[00:07:14] Perhaps that would be an effective intervention because we're losing folks. I just didn't know if you had heard that news. I wanted to bring it up. I debated texting you, but it seemed okay just to say here. But I'll tell you what, I'm going to set you up real quick for a one-liner or so. Adam hasn't seen it. Sell him. Give him an elevator pitch on why he should watch adolescence. I think he'll probably get around to it, but just see if he can do it. An elevator pitch is hard. Yeah.

[00:07:43] I think kind of what snapped me in was like, okay, it's all one shot. So I want to see if it's more than a gimmick. And then as you go through this series, you realize why that one shot was never a gimmick. It's four episodes, very different, very confident, very assured with what it's doing. And, you know, a good conversation starter for our relatives at Thanksgiving.

[00:08:10] I think I'm in on this show when I can carve out the time for it. And it's short, too. The other thing is it's four episodes, you know. They could have spooled it out, I'm sure, with the level of talent clearly in writing and acting. But they didn't. I think they chose the restraint is good. And I think it leaves you with unresolved questions. And I think that is to its credit.

[00:08:40] Adam, as a guitar player, you'll appreciate this reference. It's about what you leave out as much as it is what you add. For sure. Adam, maybe we can discuss a few details after our week off about the studio on Apple TV+. But for here and now, I mentioned this series a week or two ago to you both before either of you had seen it.

[00:09:04] It's from Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg, Peter Hewitt, Alex Gregory, and Frida Perez. Comedy where Rogen plays a bumbling movie studio head who's trying to please audiences and his bosses. Boss, maybe. One. Alike. You messaged me this week that you got mostly caught up on it. But it stressed you out. Did you find it funny, though? It profoundly stresses me out. It does.

[00:09:31] There's a big sense of humor with that stress. It's like, this is stressing me out. And that is funny. If we're doing the surface level thing that we usually do, I recommend this show. So everything that I say after this comes with that understanding. And I'll give you an exchange between me and Natalie. I say after the first episode, this is so stressful. And she kind of laughs at me and says, this is how I feel watching Curb. How you feel right now is how I feel watching Curb.

[00:10:00] You mean this didn't stress her out? The first one didn't. And then second or third, she was like, all right, I don't know if I can watch this show anymore. So she was laughing at me at first. And then eventually it's just, it's so unrelenting. And it's, I think that's a credit to how well made it is. That they're able to just like pile it on top of you. And you really feel that, just the mounting pressure. And you're rooting for Seth Rogen the whole time. Or I am. Oh, yeah.

[00:10:29] Because he's, you know, he works really well as an avatar, especially for people like us. Where it's like, I'm getting the shot to drive the big ship. You know, and now we're going to do things the right way that I've always wanted to do them. And then he's confronted with a capitalistic reality. And how do you navigate that? How do you tell Martin Scorsese, you know. Yeah. How do you tell him no, essentially. Yeah. Side note, if we're, I mean, episode one was far enough in the rear view mirror.

[00:10:57] They are constantly pitching movies and shows that don't actually exist. They're fictionalized for the story. That's a lot of fun. But all of them that go by, I'm like, I would watch that. I know. Am I a sucker because I want to see the Martin Scorsese movie that he pitched? Oh, I want to see that. Like that? Even the name. God, man. It looked great on a poster. It's unfortunate we're in. We probably won't bring it up. But maybe down the line I'll remember just how funny that episode was. I will say this.

[00:11:26] You haven't seen episode four. You're almost caught up. I didn't like episode four. Hmm. Wasn't for me. Interesting. I just wasn't the audience for that one. You know, we talk about things having a film quality a lot on television now. And this has a specific L.A. film quality that I have not seen on television that often. I think that's right. If that makes sense. And it's almost in like a once upon a time in Hollywood style. Like that vein of, even though it's not anything like watching a Tarantino movie.

[00:11:56] Technicolor is not the right word, but it's just so rich. And the quality of like, I assume it's not film, but the look of it and the cinematography choices and the wardrobe. Even, you know what? Everybody's which comes up in the show, of course. Yeah. How they all dress is so, they're not, they are caricatures, but they're very well-developed caricatures. Yeah. I got to get on this show. It's really good.

[00:12:23] Because you had talked about it and I was like, that seems interesting and honest to God. Before you texted about it, like to see if we were, I'd forgotten it existed. Like it just fell right out of my head. And now I really want to hear y'all talk about it. I really do want to see it. You'll get a really big kick out of it, Donovan. You may be the, of the three of us, you may be the cinephile the most. So you'll love it. Just moving on in quick succession here. The two of you are big fans of hacks.

[00:12:51] Don't let me put words in your mouth. Yes. I was just going to say, big fans or at least fans. Not to say that I'm anti-hacks. I just haven't seen it. But the Mac series stars Gene Smart as an aging stand-up comedian who's been passed up for late night. That much I sort of knew. I knew the stand-up comedian aspect. It's now in its third season on Mac, so you guys got any general thoughts you want to share? Who's the audience? Would you recommend it? What do you like about it broadly?

[00:13:22] This is going to sound silly. At this point, the audience is people who've seen two seasons of hacks. No, I think that's fine. I think that's... And what I mean by that is the stuff that you, at least... So we're only two episodes into this season. This is the fourth. Is it the fourth or third season? This is the fourth. There's three that's come out. This is the fourth. Okay. And if you, I think, at the time you're into four seasons, right?

[00:13:51] You kind of know how you feel about the show. So if you like the show, I feel that what it does well, it just keeps doing better and getting stronger. Who's it for? Do you like to laugh? Do you like Jean Smart? Give it a... You know, give it... Even if you're not sure if that sounds for you, give at least an episode a shot because there's some really... It's pretty good. It's very... And not only is it pretty good, it's very funny. Yeah.

[00:14:17] I think on paper, there's a way to describe this show that I would not be interested in watching it. But... I think that might be where I am. Yeah. But it's so well done and so funny. And the main players are so good at what they do. If you know nothing about it, to zoom all the way back, episode one, the setup is a young comedian has made a joke online that crossed the line in some way. And she has been canceled by the internet and her manager is trying to find her something to do.

[00:14:45] And so ships her to Vegas to work for Jean Smart's aging Vegas show comedian to punch up the material, essentially. So you have a pretty... I mean, Donovan, the age gap is 30 years between these women, roughly 40 years. I don't know what they're playing it for on the show, you know? I think more like 40. Yeah. Wow. Like she's old enough to be her grandmother. Right. Not mother. Yeah.

[00:15:11] It's just the generational clashing and the way that both get, you know, they're poking fun at both and kind of all of us. It's a good time. It's good. And it's just entertaining. It's one of the... You know, we talked about this with other HBO shows recently, you know, that there's a lot of episodes and this is the fourth season and they started in May of 2021. So they're really pranking this out. Yeah. I was kind of shocked when it was back already this week. It doesn't seem that long ago.

[00:15:41] Yeah. They ended their third season last year. I mean, it's... They're almost... I mean, obviously it's not as many episodes, but it's almost like, oh, this is what TV used to feel like. Right. You just get a season every year, so. Yeah. Well, that's what The Pit is going to be doing, you know. Right. I mentioned, I guess, last week. Maybe, Donovan, you haven't heard me say this, but they... Season two of The Pit's going to start in January, just like this season did in this January. I got to see if I can watch that.

[00:16:08] I don't usually love medical shows, but you really liked it. I've heard a lot of good stuff from other people. I read a good article about its sound choices, sound and music choices, or lack thereof, you know, the way it... So I don't know. Okay, this... It seems like there's a lot of good craft going into it, I guess is what I mean. Yeah. Regular listeners may be tired of me saying this, but it avoids the interpersonal drama that you may be associating with medical dramas.

[00:16:37] Like ER type. Exactly. Yeah. Because... Not that there's anything wrong with ER. It's all in the ER. You're all, you know, it's 45, 50 minutes in various rooms across the ER. And that's super interesting. Sounds intense. Very, yes. Jumping back to Apple TV+, I had a chance to watch the first of the two episode premiere of Your Friends and Neighbors.

[00:17:02] The series with Jon Hamm, Amanda Peet, and Olivia Munn, where Hamm plays Andy Cooper. He's a hedge fund manager who finds himself unexpectedly unemployed. And he notices some opportunities within his own upper crust neighborhood to make some quick cash. Some quick cheese. Are they making this live? No. Do you guys know anything beyond what I just said about the show? Not really. Except I love Jon Hamm.

[00:17:32] No, no, no. I mean, just like any facts about the... Nope. No. I won't say anything else. I won't tell you. I mean, it's in every ad. It's in the premises out there easily. It's not a spoiler, but I just won't say it. I guess I could just look it up. Man, I won't say it, though. It's created and written by Jonathan Troper, who's mainly just known as a writer. As far as I know, he's not helmed his own show until this one.

[00:17:57] Guys, just going by episode one, and I know that can change in a heartbeat. This one was good. Capital G. Some big Don Draper energy, except in modern times. And if this show can maintain what it does in that first episode, it's going to be top notch. The first episode did a hackneyed and a tired introduction where you have the protagonist in peril in the opening shot.

[00:18:27] Backs up X number of months, and then you put him back at the point of peril at the end. But in between is just this high quality, confident filming, writing, and acting. It reminds me a lot of HBO from about 10 to 15 years ago. It's got a premise, which is carrying a lot of weight. But it has more to say than that. More to say than the ads let on.

[00:18:54] And it reminds me of that span of HBO dramas. Because it doesn't really center on that premise as much as it centers on the characters. There's real emotion in what's happening to Andy Cooper, the Jon Hamm character. Some real decisions being made. The only thing that's a little outlandish is the premise itself, which I'm avoiding, but it's on the poster. I feel like I've got to look at this. I highly recommend the opening episode.

[00:19:23] I, of course, can't go beyond that, but I can't wait to watch the next one. It's possible we could be discussing this one in a couple of weeks after our week off. Because it just started, Apple TV Plus. It's their new, probably big Friday release show. This is the one taking the place of Severance. Well, maybe. So to speak. So to speak. Yeah. It's very adult in that he's reckoning with adult shit.

[00:19:51] You love to see Jon Hamm in something where he fits nicely. And man, he's cooking in this one. It's good. I feel like Jon Hamm's so great if you don't waste him. And this is going to sound like a crazy thing to say, but I feel like he is extremely versatile. Oh, yeah. Like if you can get, you know, like he can do so many different things. So just when you get and like layered. And then, of course, like the Don Draper is just layers on layers. Mm-hmm.

[00:20:18] So like when you get him, like if unless you just don't know what you're doing at all, you're going to get some good stuff. I wonder if time will be kind to him, to his career. Yeah. Because it's not his fault that he, you look at him and you think Don Draper. And now that he is maybe aging out of being in the period of life that he was in while filming Mad Men, he looks a little different. Maybe it allows his actual acting skill to, I mean, one, everybody knows he's hilarious. Yes.

[00:20:48] You know, has great timing and he's definitely exploited and writers have exploited. You think you're getting Don Draper. Oh, this is a dude with comedic chops. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But now to maybe be getting a good, sounds like a dramatic role. Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely going to watch. There are episodes of SNL that I will skip, but he hosted Saturday Night Live this weekend and I knew I had to watch it.

[00:21:16] His hosting of Saturday Night Live is almost don't miss. He was on Kimmy Schmidt and just killed, you know. It was great. He's great on 30 Rock, but that was one of his first like almost post Don Draper ones. And like just completely like he just gets the good sport award for it because he's completely willing to burst that bubble. Oh, yeah. They ruin his looks with the big beard and glasses. So good. He's pretty good on 30 Rock, too.

[00:21:44] He's hilarious on 30 Rock. And that's what makes me feel like he is like he can play varying like levels of like sincere. Like sometimes he can he can be a very convincing con man. He can be a very convincing villain or he can just be like a goofy guy you like.

[00:22:01] One of the things that I really loved about the last season of Fargo, and I think this is really smart work from the writers and the showrunners, but also from him is they really do the like you think you're getting Don Draper and you're not. And kind of the way that he portrays that character. It's really good work. It's really, really good. A little bit of a little scary edge to that one. Little scary.

[00:22:30] There's fear, but also, yeah, any. I can't go too much into it. It's good. I liked his work. Yeah. We have a new podcast title, by the way. I meant to tell you all this. It's called Deadass Last Discourse. I thought it was Hamming About Ham. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. We could as much as we like Mad Men. I swear the three of us could probably combine our King of the Hill Arrested Development and Mad Men just into one podcast somehow.

[00:23:00] What I think, Adam kind of suggests this, but you remember the end of Fahrenheit 451 where the bombs fall, but they remembered the books in their heads. That's what it's going to be for us. When the bombs fall, we'll give you Mad Men. We'll give you Arrested Development. When these tariffs won't allow us to afford new TVs. Exactly. We'll just recount Mad Men. Jokes on them. I can already do it. But anyway, yeah, Deadass Last Discourse.

[00:23:27] No, we're not changing the name, but it may come so far behind all the quick and hot takes, but there's no reason not to cover the White Lotus in its finale because we've done so week by week. I'll admit that it's just a regrettable time to be a DIY podcast who records on a Sunday afternoon for a Tuesday release. Event TV on Sunday night, as it should be, leaves us standing in the dust at times. Another reason to cheer for Apple. Thank you, Apple.

[00:23:55] Yeah, the Friday release is really nice. Man, it gives you the whole weekend to figure out a time to watch. Love it. Severance, it was like we were right on it. That was good. Oh, so I learned something interesting about the White Lotus. Okay. The series as a whole. Did you know that Duke is a real school? It's not made up just for the show. They have a basketball team and everything. Yeah. They did pretty good this year. Yeah. This was as close to event TV as we get now, isn't it? Yeah, I think so.

[00:24:24] I think, I mean, any Game of Thrones adjacent thing is probably going to be, but even that doesn't feel the same level of, they really have, at least the internet, if you can take that with a grain of salt. But, you know, if the internet ran things, we'd be living in a socialist paradise by now. But. Oh, really? Instead. What corners of the internet are you hanging out? Apparently the good ones. But it does, it did seem like everybody's watching the show.

[00:24:49] But I just mean that in that we get in our little echo chambers and I don't know if you polled a man on the street, how much White Lotus opinion they would have. But it did seem like a lot of folks were watching this. A couple of students asked me if I watched it. Oh, really? Yeah. This finale does set us up for a good conversation for no spoilers. And that's the simple question of, what'd you think about season three as a whole piece? I don't know how I'm going to respond without. Oh. So maybe.

[00:25:17] Well, I mean, I can just say, I can keep it simple and just say, and I hate to say this because it was, I think it was a really strong season with a disappointing ending. Oh. That's okay. I can't wait to get into spoiler section. Let's do that. Let's do that right now. Let's take a break. Spoilers on the back half. Do you love music? Do you want to explore classic albums? If you answered yes, then check out Polyphonic Press.

[00:25:47] I'm Jeremy, and along with my co-host John, we rely on the patented Random Album Generator to pick an album for us to review. At the top of each show, we have no idea what album we're going to be listening to. That's what keeps it really exciting. We dig real deep into these albums. So if this sounds interesting, come along with us on this journey, because you never know what you might find. We release a new episode every Tuesday morning.

[00:26:14] That's Polyphonic Press, and we're available on every podcast platform. Okay. Back from the break. I have a quick question about Hacks. Does it have any real stand-up comedian cameos playing themselves? Have there been a few? I think there must have been, but honestly, it doesn't really need it, and it's not really about stand-up comedy. Oh.

[00:26:42] Like, that's a part of it, but I wouldn't say that, like, that's not what the whole show is. Okay. She is enough of an institution at this point that she has a whole team that moves with her. Oh. You know, and so it's the inner workings of that team. She's like a Joan Crawford figure. Don't you mean Joan Rivers? Did I say Joan Rivers? I said Joan Crawford, didn't I? Sorry, yeah, I meant Joan Rivers. Don't cancel you? Please edit me out saying that. Donovan Reinwald canceled for confusing Joan's.

[00:27:11] Man, yeah, she's like Joan Rivers, where she's like an institution, but she's also kind of resting on her laurels. You know? What? It's a wrap on the Sunday airing of the third season of The White Lotus, but maybe we have an advantage. We can be the final say of the quickly moving discourse around the show. I hope we got some fresh and insightful ideas coming. And not so much off the heels of the third season's finale, but more like five miles behind.

[00:27:39] Adam, what's your most original take on The White Lotus, considering everybody said what they've said? I still think what we've talked about, about it being an investigation of spirituality, stands up. I agree. It asks real questions about right and wrong beyond maybe what it had done before.

[00:27:59] You know, we're presented with someone who is asked by someone who can change their life for the better to murder someone else when they have been shown to be a fairly devout Buddhist. And the question of, you know, what is defense? What is essentially an execution? All of these things are just not... I mean, they're the most... It reminds me of like Cormac McCarthy saying like, I'm not interested in anything but life and death. Like, why would anybody waste their time with anything else? Yeah.

[00:28:28] And I think The White Lotus in seasons one and two asked pretty big questions, but now it asked like about the fabric of morality, you know, and about life and death. Not just like our choices around the violence of it, but like what happens when you die? Where are you before you're born? All these kind of things that I wasn't expecting it to do.

[00:28:52] And it was trying to track people through their own inner conversations about that. Oh, yeah. And I think that was... I don't know how much that's been talked about online. I know there's... Yeah. In fact, there's been some complaints about the superficiality of the spiritual nature of the show. But to them, I say, if you want the real thing, go watch a documentary on Buddhism. Yeah.

[00:29:18] And my pushback on that would be like, of course, it's still tremendously wealthy people experiencing something within the confines of... Until the end when that curated experience is shattered, you know, it's like, of course, you're getting the Disney World version of... Because that's what they're experiencing. Right. It's not Martin Scorsese's silence. Right. Right. You know how many people watch silence? Me and Donovan. Yeah.

[00:29:46] I would say the only two people are here. Actually, my friend Joel has a story about going to see it. And right at the... Like, as soon as the credits go, it goes, Martin Scorsese, like the most, like, oldest, like, New England, Massachusetts woman voice you've ever heard goes, That film was directed by Martin Scorsese! That's good. That's good. Don't you love that? Adam, rank the three seasons of the White Lotus.

[00:30:16] I could make arguments for all of them to be in the one spot, and I could argue against all of them as well. I think the two is probably the strongest front to back. It may be 2-1-3. You know what mine would be? Hit me. 3-2-1. Interesting. Yeah. See, 3 to me was poised to take the top spot. And I feel like it kind of collapsed on itself really, really quickly at the ending.

[00:30:45] So when you say ending, do you mean the final episode or the last five minutes, 30 minutes? And since we're in spoilers, you could just say whatever, right? Yeah. I mean, I think once the violence started, I think it undid a lot of character development for a few different people. And it just made it... I don't think it was particularly well filmed either. Wait, what? Really? Yeah. It just didn't do it for me.

[00:31:12] Just that sequence of events where the violence happens or the whole episode? Just the end sequence. I mean, all of a sudden you have what could have been a very heart-wrenching thing. All of a sudden you have, you know, he shoots them. He was your father. It's like it turns into like a bit like soap opera-y kind of stuff. And then you don't even see... You know, like, you know, like, Goggins is going to die for sure. You know, like that somehow...

[00:31:42] I'm not sure he's making it out of this alive. But Chelsea is following him. And you're thinking, like, is she going to... Positive pretty early on that they're going to go out in a blaze of glory together. And she kind of is shot off screen, right? And they have this moment where he holds her and then he carries her. And the only way for Guy Talk to advance in life is to, like, execute him, essentially. So all of... I think that moment was good.

[00:32:10] And I actually was, like, talking out loud to the screen. Don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah. But, you know, it just reduced Rick to... His whole arc is not interesting to me anymore. Isn't that a bit of the Don Draper thing where I'm not going to drink today? I'm not going to philander today. And then by noon he's drunk and in bed with another woman?

[00:32:33] I think that they tried with the way that he is desperately seeking help from the woman who had given him some sense of enlightenment or he'd opened up to. They're trying to give him that development. You know, like, here's a guy who's really thinking about things but can't shake his past, you know? Yeah. It's the anchor around his neck. But it just came off way more one-dimensional than a Don Draper style portrayal. Yeah.

[00:33:01] Well, it didn't have the multi-season arc that Draper has. I mean, that's true. But even in season one, talking about Jon Hamm earlier, and you all mentioned that he can play dark and menacing. I think of that episode where his brother comes to him and he goes with the briefcase to the YMCA where his brother's staying. And you don't know Don well enough at that point to know that he's not a violent person.

[00:33:26] And you're like, oh, they played that to make it look like he's going to kill this guy who's going to derail his life, right? And, like, Don has some menace there. That wasn't a bunch of episodes in. So I'm not asking the White Lotus to be one of the greatest shows of all time. But I do wish that they had done a bit more there. I think other, you know, if we're looking around the league, as we would say on an SEC Saturday, the three women. It's nice, man. The friendships there. I thought that was great.

[00:33:56] They had a very nice ending. Yeah. That's funny because I would say it's kind of the opposite. I don't think they nailed the Rick arc, but I think that it was better than the three friends. I mean, the three friends were not the most fun element to watch all along. But to me, that felt like a real life moment of growth, you know?

[00:34:21] Like a realization of, like, you can't just throw away people that you've been with for that long. And that sometimes that's messy and uncomfortable, but we're together. I mean, I thought the whole, the Ratliff family, there's some silly moments there, but still interesting.

[00:34:40] And the personal development, even of someone like Saxon is, you know, he ended up being a much more intriguing character to me than Rick, if I'm being honest. Yeah. It was pretty amazing what they did with the Saxon character. I, you know, no, I don't think anyone wanted to like him. And it's even debatable if you want to say he is likable in the end, but something happens to him and it's noticeable and worthy of thinking about.

[00:35:10] And it's there on screen, but it's not blatantly said. I mean, even little things like him reading the book and then hiding the book. Yes. Because he doesn't want to be seen reading like an Enlightenment kind of book or saying like, of course I almost finished it. I went to Duke. Mm-hmm. I like that too. I've seen a lot of grumbling about the finale. What were you the most happy or satisfied with? Saxon, for sure.

[00:35:38] I don't, I mean, Guy Tuck had a, it wasn't the ending that you want, but he, from a storytelling perspective. Yeah. They brought that home. They did. I think the, like the Ratliff, you want to know what happens when their phones turn on, you know? Yeah. That was a big thing. I noticed online that they didn't make Tim and the rest of them have to reckon with that. But that just feels like a whole other two or three episodes. It definitely is.

[00:36:06] And the show doesn't follow them past the boat ride, you know? Yeah, it never does. I mean, that's, that's the program. So I think that's, that ending Zoom around, I know a lot of people have pointed out, like how, there's a few things. They've all, one, just survived a mass shooting event, you know? I mean, it wasn't, it was a shootout more than like a, yeah, rampage kind of thing. But how are they not, the three women are shaken, obviously, and they're showing that on the boat.

[00:36:35] But, you know, are the Ratliff's not going to talk about how Lachlan almost died? Or the fact that they just like were somewhere where gunfire was exchanged or any of this stuff. And Belinda and her son were also, I mean, he heard bullets whizzing around them. And they managed to escape from a would-be murderer, possibly. And they're just waving at everybody from the boat.

[00:37:03] Maybe $5 million can make you feel okay about surviving a shootout. That one was easier to explain away to me than everything else in the end there. Let's go character by character for several of these. I really liked where Saxon landed. We kind of covered that. You know, when he turns to look and see, fuck Rick's back. It's a little bit more than just, fuck Rick's back.

[00:37:31] Like, there's a depth and an understanding he did not have until he went on this vacation. You mean watching Chelsea run to him? Instead of, yeah. Instead of kind of continuing to talk to Saxon. But it was like an acceptance, sort of, rather than a petulant kid. He kind of... There was a deep sadness there. Not just like, I didn't get what I wanted, but like, oh, this is...

[00:37:59] All of a sudden you see, like, a depth to somebody that you haven't seen before. That's right. Yeah. That was very well played and well written and well shot. All right. Let's go to Lachlan. Should Lachlan have died? You know, a lot of people online have said the real Greek tragedy would have been he dies and then the phones turn on and the problem has gone away. Oh, yeah. You know, like... Whoa. Yeah. The lawyer calls and says, guys, I think we got it handled.

[00:38:28] This was blowing up a portion and everything's going to be fine. That's good. His whole... I was surprised when they did the whole near-death experience visual sequence. Me too. It doesn't seem... I found that odd. I feel like we've said a bunch of times, and it's been said about this season, that's not what the show is. And I thought about that idea as that happened. Like, starting in season one, if you had told me by season three, there's a, like, what happens

[00:38:54] when we die visual experience, it would have been surprising. But, I mean, it kind of worked. I don't know how he's just, like, on the boat later that day chilling, but... Well, he didn't look thrilled. He had the sunglasses on, kind of the reverse of the see no evil, hear no evil, right? Yeah. Speak no evil. The three of them sitting there on the boat looked the reverse of maybe what they were originally.

[00:39:23] How many times do we joke about, like, people like the Ratlifts only learning a lesson when they... Something happens to them? Mm-hmm. Not having empathy until then? And, like, is Tim needing to almost lose his son to realize what's important? You know, is that supposed to be what we're taking away from that? Well, that's the way a lot of people are. That feels a little trite to me. Oh.

[00:39:50] I mean, it would be true, but, you know, not even 12 hours before he was going to kill off the rest of the family and leave this orphan kid behind because he was the only one who's not materialistic. Yeah, I'm sure he's still going to do just a dandy in life after the murder-suicide of his entire family. He was going to live in poverty is what he was going to do. Just ride back to the monastery. Yeah. With its non-organic food. What about Piper?

[00:40:21] I'm glad that I said aloud about the way that she dressed last week. Did you notice the shift this week? I don't think so. Tell me. The internet had said, why is she dressing like a Victorian ghost child? Oh, yeah. For most of the season, always wearing white, very billowy clothes. As soon as she decides not to go, all of a sudden her wardrobe has a lot of color, form fitting. It's like, oh, this is someone who's decided to be hot now. Yeah. Which was funny.

[00:40:50] She's been shown shopping with her mom for fancy things. Yeah. Her mom turned out to be, I mean, I'm not a parent, but that seemed like pretty good parenting if you think the best thing for your child is to convince them not to stay. You know, when she has her come apart at dinner and she's crying. Parker Posey never says, I told you so or anything like that. It's just like, okay, it's okay. You know? Yeah. But she still got her to do what she wanted her to do.

[00:41:18] She just needed to get off the lorazepam. There's even like a, Parker Posey played that with such a look of, like she looked very present in that moment where she looked aloof for the whole season to me. Yeah. So that was pretty well done. And something she did with facial expression and in her eyes, it was impressive. Well, let's just go to Tim here. The big complaint I saw there was that he didn't have to deal with the fallout of his greedy ways in North Carolina or wherever it is he was.

[00:41:48] Or almost murdering his child. Yeah. And there's that. His children, right? Because he gives them the pina coladas. And of course, Lachlan, go grab a Coke. Get you a Coke. Get you a Coke. How many times have you been told that? At least not when everyone else was drinking poison pina coladas. Right. I mean, it's cheap to say maybe, but that's just not what Mike wanted to examine.

[00:42:16] It works like literature in a way. They're not explaining that because they don't have to. Right. Yeah. Which we're not as used to on TV, especially when the show is kind of set up to be almost like procedural in its handling of all the things that it's set up. We only really got the emotional closure to and not the practical closure to. If that makes sense. Yeah. You can't show everything.

[00:42:43] But hey, there's the 90 minute versions out there we'll never see. Maybe that's where some of this is buried. I think I read that there were scenes shot where Piper hooks up with Belinda's son. Wait, what? That was going to be a storyline somehow? Weird, but. I guess if you had more time for her post monastic experience. I don't know what that would have done. I don't either. That's why it's not in the show. Yeah. Good edit there.

[00:43:14] Well, speaking of Zion, he and Belinda, another grumble is. I think I've got an idea about this one. And many people thought that she didn't hold up to the bright light above the fray of the opulent bullshit. You know, she takes the money and even is kind of had a little bit of a plan either in the moment or cooked up to have Zion.

[00:43:41] She was going to play a role to make sure she got the money. But to me, that's just I think that's what my why it wants to show us is that a lot of people out there are greedy and damaged. And when you get the chance, you're going to take it. You know, you put anybody in that situation. It's hard to resist five mil. I think the scene where she checks her computer and there it is. The money actually showed up.

[00:44:07] They shot that in a way that you almost you get a sense of what that would feel like. You know, they did. They did make that practical. It wasn't just like a emotional thing. She does what most of us have to do, which is check our bank accounts before we do things month to month. And all of a sudden there are a lot of numbers there. Yeah. I mean, it does show her as not above the fray.

[00:44:32] But I mean, she we assume raised a son on her own and has, you know, run into ceilings and walls and all these other things in her career. And yeah, why not get get the money? Yeah, I was for that decision. I was for it. What last week when I was like, ask for more that we both said she's he was throwing pennies at her. Yeah. And as it turned out, we weren't even sure exactly how little he was throwing at her. Yeah.

[00:45:01] Well, and it shows him to, you know, the party's still going on. Everybody else leaves and he's still there partying. It hadn't put a dent in his. You know, things are going to be all right. Didn't slow him down. You know, the funny thing to me with her is she's shown to be so hesitant and then kind of uses Zion and his cringiness. Like she knows he's going to go in and kind of make a fool of himself and embarrass her a little bit.

[00:45:31] And then she uses that to storm out. And then she makes her final play. She had to have thought that up beforehand. You're right. All of the younger people on this show have been, you know, had their blind spots or whatever or ways they needed to grow. But they just straight up made him cringy in the way that. Yeah, they did. Like overconfident. And, you know, all of us have had our moments like that. Yeah. So it was it was funny to to see that portrayed.

[00:46:01] Gay talk and Mook. To me, this one held my interest the least, but maybe had the most definite stamp of what Mike White wanted to say. Like this is a shallow look at humanity, particularly with Mook. It's a bit surprising that she that's what White wanted to do with her character. Mook's bad news. Yeah, she kind of is. Gay talk could have done a lot better. He could have. And it's not what he wanted to do.

[00:46:27] But he's also, you know, early on, you kind of wonder is there like some incel kind of energy going on here with him? Yeah. And we wondered if he would be the one to. But then he ends up, you know, talking about violence and the Buddha doesn't want this and that. And it's confronted with one of the outside of Tim deciding if how he feels about suicide and murdering his own family. You know, there he is with a gun in his hand and is scolded for when he runs up on the

[00:46:56] scene and he's trying to piece together what's going on and gets yelled at by his boss. Like, what are you doing, you idiot? I don't remember what she says exactly. But what's he supposed to do? Well, you know, all of them, from a realistic viewpoint, all of them are in the heat of the moment. What is it? You know, what would you say? I mean, and what would he what would you do if you're sitting there with the gun? Should I shoot this guy? I mean, this lady's chewing my ass out. No, you don't shoot the guy in the back that's carrying his. No, you don't. But I'm just but I've never been there.

[00:47:26] No, but, you know, he was shown to question his courage a lot. And, you know, one, he took a punch pretty early on and bounced back up and finished the day's work. And now he's run into the sound of gunfire. You know, I don't think courage is a problem for this guy. We have an email that may fit wonderfully right here. It's from it's from Tim, whom I mentioned earlier. Tim of SETI BIMCO podcast.

[00:47:54] He writes, as I mentioned before, I'm not much for guessing, but the guesses I made were all wrong. Money seemed to have made everyone a worse person in the end. And I do think that's the point a little. He says our three girlfriends were the only ones who came out better for their experience. I especially hate how Mookie got hooked up now that he became a killer. Yeah. And again, I think that's kind of the thing.

[00:48:19] Mike White is able to show us how bad humanity can be without just depressing you. And I think that's a credit. Well, a couple more characters remain, obviously. Lori, Jacqueline and Katie. We did mention them, but Carrie Coon's delivery of that friendship speech you mentioned, that really was good. They didn't have my interest as much, but that was a really great five minutes.

[00:48:49] Yeah. She turned that from, you know, like a sweet sentiment of like, oh, here's what I learned about myself and us on this trip kind of thing to like a real moving speech about community and friends and time and all of this. And I thought that was great. The acting was so strong. Worthy of reading outside of context, I think. It's good writing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. How about Greg Hunt and his gal pal?

[00:49:19] Still just carrying on. It's credit to John Grease that I can't help it. I kind of like Greg. Greg. Him sitting there like over his revelry and he winks at his girlfriend from afar because she's trying to rope in another guy for them to whatever, do their weird sex watch thing. Yeah. I'm sorry, but I was like, God, he's kind of funny. He's funny and just obviously not a big guy, but an imposing presence. Yeah.

[00:49:49] Yeah. You know, he cast a long shadow over the proceedings there. And like, I still don't know what the truth is. I think he's a great guy. I think that he had nothing to do with his former wife's murder and that he is just, hey, you know, Bob Dylan said it. I can't help it if I'm lucky. I mean, we're supposed to think 99% he's involved, but it's not defined, right?

[00:50:19] Mm-mm. Still. I think that's genius. Yeah, it is. That's genius writing. Yeah. Because there is still a chance that it just all hit right for him aside from... Oh, jackpot. Yeah. How about Jim Hollinger? And I did, yeah, that felt silly for her to look up and say, he's your father. He told me. I mean, just that he told me. Even that, cutting that might have been even a little better, but... I think everybody knew by that point, you know?

[00:50:49] Is there a way to have done that that would have been less on the nose and more like we're talking about with Greg, probably just not have her say that, I suppose. He painted himself into a corner at that point. Yeah. I don't have a suggestion on how that could have been handled better. I mean, you could have seen... Say that he mentions it at that breakfast, you know, when they confront each other. Yeah. He tells them, I knew your mother. Did he call her a slut or something?

[00:51:18] Yeah, slut is the word. Very, very quaint. Yeah. Felt weird to say that out loud in The Year of Our Lord 2025. I didn't like it. But if he had said, I'm your father, whatever, had his little Darth Vader moment, and then Rick had to deal with that and still chose violence, then that's pretty interesting. Well, you know why it would have considered that. I mean, just chose not to...

[00:51:47] I mean, you know, I don't know. It was the path of least resistance to me, and it ended up being, as a result, it couldn't stand up to the rest of the season. Walton Goggins' portrayal of Rick and Amy Lou Wood's portrayal of Chelsea was so good and so well cast that their story still had a big impact on me as a viewer. You know, their death was the most tragic of any of the deaths that we've seen in any of the seasons for me.

[00:52:16] I gotta be honest, I don't think Rick was a good character. I think Goggins was a great actor. It could be. And when they were shot, I didn't really care. Because I was sad. I know that's a take, but... No, I know. That's what we're here to do. But what about him didn't seem to have you? Just Goggins aside, what's not working? Again, it just seemed like a one-dimensional kind of character. Yeah. Kind of one note. Like, I had a bad childhood and then just can't get past it.

[00:52:45] And I think there were things that did not emotionally resonate. And I'm seeing him, Mike White, use these other characters to get under my skin. You know, to make me think, to make me feel things. And this didn't do it. You know, like Chelsea saying, we're going to be together forever. Or whatever she says. And turns out, yes, she was right. They were together for the rest of their lives. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know that they're trying to make those... Set those moments up.

[00:53:14] And I just did not care when they... Oh, wow. Yeah, I liked them both immensely. I really liked her character, too. Yes. I don't think it was just her being great as an actress. It was... That was a well-developed character. But she also was... Rick was so one track in what he was trying to do, where she was on a bit more of a journey. Yeah. Encountering different folks. Learning more. We learned more about her than we did about him.

[00:53:43] See, I think that he was definitely one track. I don't disagree with that. But I think that that one track had so many decisions and thoughtful moments where... I mean, you know, he tried... I just love that he tries to reach out for help but still did the dumbass thing. Yeah. Because that's just one of those... I just relate to that. I believed all of the reaching out for help until the very end. I did sit on the most important question,

[00:54:12] assuming there'll be a season four, which at this point would be dumb not to do as much buzz as this one generated. Will we see justice for Fabian? Will he get his performance? What if he is... Like, you find out that he's just left wherever the next location is because he's on tour. He's on his world tour. Oh, baby. You know, I thought that he was just a nothing character.

[00:54:42] And it's funny how looking back on the season as a whole, I kind of crack up when I think about him. Mm-hmm. Especially when we had two managers that were real powerhouses in seasons one and two. Oh, yeah. Would they set the owner as set up as more of the figure in this one? Yeah. It makes a little more sense, but yeah, still. A little too paint by numbers if you do everything the exact same. Yeah. You know, goddamn the internet, but I do like the idea of an all-stars cast,

[00:55:12] season four or five, whatever. I just think that's so funny. Set it up here. What do you mean by that? I think I know. Oh, you just pick anybody who's survived seasons one through three and you put them in the same season together. Even if you're breaking different parties apart? Yeah, sure. Why not? I mean, Jacqueline could be on a movie set at the next one with, and then we could have... Like Victoria goes, but Tim doesn't. There might be a good reason for that.

[00:55:43] I mean, Saxon hanging out with Sidney Sweeney and her friend could be pretty funny. I mean, he would like it. Does Sidney Sweeney exist in the season three universe as Sidney Sweeney? If so, Saxon is familiar with her work. Say, you are asking important questions. Thoughtful stuff. It was fun. It was fun to watch. And think about. It was... I know it's not good for us in our recording schedule,

[00:56:13] but it was fun to have like a I'm going to watch this on Sunday night style program in our lives again. I was genuinely looking forward to the 90-minute finale for days beforehand. So... And it was still fun. It just... When it wasn't over, I thought, no, that's over now. I don't know. I liked it a lot. I thought it was the best season. I think I liked it because it was reaching for bigger and more thoughtful ideas, even if it didn't nail them. Yeah. Just better. Although I think it said

[00:56:43] what he wanted to say. I am impressed that he continues to come up with new questions to ask. Yeah. You know? It's not just the, look, here's these opulent people and aren't they horrible? Not this time around. There's more to it. Right. Okay. I think we've reached the end here. You're talking about Sunday night viewing. I bet Donovan and I will be talking about The Last of Us when we return. And it sounds like we might be touching on your friends and neighbors on Apple TV Plus

[00:57:12] as we have next week off. No episode next Tuesday. You can watch along with us and we'll be back in two weeks. So that's all for this episode. Fret not. We will be back. Head to thealabamatake.com. Click on donations or click on the show notes for this podcast and give us a donation. Give us a one-time tip if you wish. For Adam and Donovan, I'm Blaine and we hope that you've made it out of Thailand in one piece.

[00:57:42] Gotta get out of Taiwan. Taiwan as well.