The Nostalgia of Reading with a Documentary and 'Dark Matter' on Apple TV+

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[00:02:08] All right. What's going on?

[00:02:10] So I finished the Apple TV plus show Sugar caused a little controversy.

[00:02:16] I don't know if it caused controversy.

[00:02:17] It caused a little ripple in the TV world.

[00:02:20] Stared Colin Farrell doing one of his best roles to date.

[00:02:24] As the private investigator John Sugar who was hot on the heels of a missing girl in very noir-ish LA.

[00:02:30] It's the series that garnered a huge and very rude spoiler from Katherine Van Arendonck on The Vulture website.

[00:02:37] It's also the series I lauded with the first episode or two.

[00:02:40] I cooled on it a little in the middle of its run, but I did believe two things which critics disagree with me.

[00:02:46] The big event of Sugar didn't really ruin it, but it also didn't change much.

[00:02:51] So that's a good and a bad thing.

[00:02:54] I just thought it was overall well done.

[00:02:56] It was interesting.

[00:02:57] I really did like the show.

[00:02:59] Had there been another actor playing John Sugar and wasn't Colin Farrell, you know,

[00:03:03] I don't know that I would sing its praises as much.

[00:03:06] A lot of what I liked rested on Colin Farrell's shoulders bringing this private out alive.

[00:03:11] Just giving us an absolutely genuine character, a very human character, someone you wanted to just watch.

[00:03:20] Very likeable.

[00:03:22] When talking about Sugar in a text with co-host Donovan, I just asked him a series of questions.

[00:03:28] Do you like Colin Farrell?

[00:03:29] Do you like him in a well tailored suit?

[00:03:31] Would you want to see him play in the nicest person imaginable?

[00:03:35] And what if that person was a private investigator in a very noir-like version of L.A.?

[00:03:41] Well, buddy, I got the show for you.

[00:03:43] So maybe that'll sell you on it.

[00:03:45] I'm interested to hear what you guys think because of the waves that it made.

[00:03:51] And I've also watched two or three more episodes of the Hulu series under the bridge since last I've mentioned it here.

[00:03:57] It's the drama based on the actual death of a high school student in Victoria, Canada.

[00:04:02] It doled out its mystery perhaps a little longer than needed.

[00:04:05] It'd likely be the same piece of television with one less episode, but it did allow you to kind of live with some of these people.

[00:04:11] It's hard to call them characters because they are for the most part real people other than one or two.

[00:04:17] My initial complaint was having the very real author here played by Elvis' granddaughter, Riley Keough, felt unnecessary.

[00:04:26] They used her kind of as a plot point or a device throughout the season because she wasn't actually there at the time of the event.

[00:04:35] I kind of griped about the way she was handling the character at first.

[00:04:38] It felt like a lot of moping, but I come around her performance.

[00:04:43] Riley Keough does get much better and the idea of her being in there, the author as a character being there during the investigation comes to fruition.

[00:04:52] I get its intention. It still kind of sets the odd choice even towards the end, but you know, I see what they're doing.

[00:04:59] The show though does get more and more captivating with each and every episode.

[00:05:04] I may barely spoil one part of an episode here.

[00:05:09] Under the Bridge and its creators does this really careful, considerate job of allowing us to know Rena the victim perhaps better than other shows of this genre.

[00:05:19] And it links us to these people.

[00:05:22] So the low key spoiler is that one episode spends a lot of time with the background of her parents.

[00:05:27] It's actually not a bad episode either.

[00:05:29] It does take the eye off the ball, just a little, but still a good episode.

[00:05:34] The penultimate episode from last week though, there's this heartbreaking moment where the father asks what kids are saying about his daughter.

[00:05:44] The finale is set to air today. If you're listening on Tuesday, I can recommend this one. It's a good one.

[00:05:51] Let's bring in the cohost here. Let's get Adam and Donovan.

[00:05:54] I love a take projection.

[00:05:57] Joining me now, it's Adam and Donovan.

[00:06:04] We don't have to spend hardly any time on this at all, but I do want to ask y'all to begin.

[00:06:09] How did you two celebrate the most important day of the year?

[00:06:12] Bob Dylan turned 83 on Thursday.

[00:06:15] I read a thing that Stereogum shared where Charlie Brown's being told by Linus that Bob Dylan will turn 30 and it's the most depressing thing he's ever heard.

[00:06:27] That's a classic.

[00:06:28] And then I drank myself to sleep.

[00:06:30] Adam, I imagine you picked up the guitar, played a little, times they are changing.

[00:06:37] Him being 83, what do you make of that blame?

[00:06:41] A lot. There's a lot of directions to go with that.

[00:06:45] I'm just surprised he's, you know, he had to have done his fair amount of drugs and drinking.

[00:06:52] Sure.

[00:06:53] And he's with us and seems to be healthy. He certainly tours like a healthy person.

[00:06:59] You are probably much more familiar with his biography than I am.

[00:07:04] I've read the book. I've read articles here and there, but you know, his personal life seems pretty outside the public view.

[00:07:13] Do you think that has something to do with it? That he has not really been a celebrity conventionally in many, many years.

[00:07:19] And when he goes home, is he living a pretty quiet life, stress free?

[00:07:25] I think he just stays busy. I think there's something to be said about a person who stays busy.

[00:07:30] There's this great line in Heartworn Highways, not even spoken by one of the stars.

[00:07:37] It's Towns Van Zandt's neighbor, old black guy. And they ask him, you know, how have you made it so long?

[00:07:44] Because he must be pretty old. And he says, always be doing something.

[00:07:48] Stay moving.

[00:07:50] I believe in that because like my grandparents, they were able to retire like fairly early just because they worked very hard and played their cards right.

[00:07:59] But they were like, we know exactly what we're going to do. You know, and like they always had something to do.

[00:08:05] Like even if it was just like we're going to go play golf with our friends. Right? Like they were busy.

[00:08:10] Keep something on the calendar.

[00:08:12] Exactly.

[00:08:13] How many times do you see someone retire and then die a year later?

[00:08:17] I'm just, thank God that Nick Saban has this job with the SPN.

[00:08:21] He could be giving up the ghost if not.

[00:08:25] I'm horrified.

[00:08:26] Do you think, real question actually. Do you think Miss Terry will allow Nick Saban to die?

[00:08:32] He will have to check in on that.

[00:08:35] Yeah.

[00:08:36] Last, we'll shift gears. I don't have a good segue here, but.

[00:08:40] Oh, I can tell my real answer for what I was doing for Bob Dylan's birthday.

[00:08:44] Go ahead.

[00:08:45] So I went to trivia and the whole time I was super afraid that there was going to be like a blame level Bob Dylan question.

[00:08:51] Was there?

[00:08:52] No, thank God.

[00:08:53] Was there any at all?

[00:08:55] No, not a bit.

[00:08:56] Missed opportunity.

[00:08:58] Were you afraid because you're part of a team and you thought that they may look to you?

[00:09:02] Yes, because last time I did it we got first place and they keep saying it was because of me, which is not true.

[00:09:09] But you hype me up like this. I'm going to get some anxiety.

[00:09:14] What was the question that gave you this ringer status?

[00:09:17] I was able to put some Roman emperors in order.

[00:09:21] Damn.

[00:09:22] So Bob Dylan is your Roman Empire.

[00:09:25] It was Caligula, Vespasian and Marcus Aurelius. Those are pretty easy to remember.

[00:09:29] Marcus Aurelius. I was hoping you would say him.

[00:09:33] I'm reading a little of his work.

[00:09:36] Last week, speaking of what's good for me, last week I hailed Dark Matter as a really entertaining first three episodes of TV on Apple TV+.

[00:09:44] And it's since aired its fourth episode called The Corridor.

[00:09:47] We won't get that far.

[00:09:49] It's based on the book of the same name by Blake Crouch who also wrote the TV series. He's heavily involved.

[00:09:55] This makes me interested in it because I do think he's actually savvy, a savvy writer.

[00:10:01] Seems to be.

[00:10:03] Yeah.

[00:10:04] I praised the show for a few things but namely just the premise drew me.

[00:10:08] I was enthralled by that idea.

[00:10:10] Adam, you've since watched the first episode.

[00:10:13] Excuse me, the first two.

[00:10:14] I'm glad you did because they came out as a pair and I'm curious if that was needed or does that play a role.

[00:10:22] So we can talk a little about the first two episodes.

[00:10:24] We'll put a little spoiler morning up for episodes one and two.

[00:10:29] There are four total so maybe we can all catch up at some point and talk more of Dark Matter if Adam likes it.

[00:10:36] What do you think, Adam? Just overall?

[00:10:38] Should we do the pre-spoiler recommend or not?

[00:10:42] Yeah.

[00:10:43] Let's do that before we do any spoilers.

[00:10:45] Yeah, because last week I was all in. Where are you?

[00:10:49] I'm pretty into it and it reminded me what we said on this program before that Apple TV seems to be the HBO of the moment

[00:10:59] and that they just make good stuff and yet again this is good stuff.

[00:11:04] I thought the acting is pretty superb.

[00:11:07] The story has been great so far.

[00:11:10] The environment, the mood, it all feels fresh but it's hitting the beats of prestige television without becoming a caricature of itself if that makes sense.

[00:11:24] That does make sense.

[00:11:25] That's high praise.

[00:11:26] Because there's so much like, oh sorry, I was just thinking to go with Adam's point,

[00:11:30] There's so much like good TV, quote unquote good TV that's like it's got a couple stars and it's not horribly written and it's like oh okay, we've seen this.

[00:11:40] A million times.

[00:11:41] Or it just lays there on the screen.

[00:11:43] Yes.

[00:11:44] There's no life much.

[00:11:47] I think the acting really elevates this and I could see how maybe I wouldn't be wild about the book, then maybe the show is more literary than the book would be.

[00:12:01] Donovan did you give out of four stars what are you giving the book? You read the book right?

[00:12:06] Out of four. Three probably for me, which is not like maybe three and a half but probably a solid three where it was like oh I, this was enjoyable

[00:12:15] but not like it didn't change my life. But yeah, more read it than don't.

[00:12:20] Yeah, I thought you were more lukewarm than that for some reason.

[00:12:24] No, like I didn't think it was like the greatest thing in the world, but it wasn't something that I was like, yeah I could take it or leave it.

[00:12:32] It was like I don't regret reading this.

[00:12:35] Sometimes I feel like modern literature or maybe all literature and with time the stuff that doesn't hold up just fades away.

[00:12:43] So we have the luxury of things being curated for us, but can sometimes have a great premise and ask great questions but not really deliver on the quality of writing, character development, whatever.

[00:13:00] And you end up with these big ideas that just feel like bullet points in a narrative.

[00:13:05] And it seems to me through I've only seen the two episodes, but this is doing a thing where it's asking and making you feel the question at the same time.

[00:13:16] You know Donovan gave it praise enough by saying that it avoids the Martian and its writer which is just get just knee deep in the facts and just sound like a owner's manual.

[00:13:33] And I think Donovan you mentioned that the book itself doesn't do that.

[00:13:37] It is not. So like the Martian is a very, very annoying example of what is usually referred to as hard science fiction.

[00:13:47] And this is the kind of you know like even you have like you can go back to like Robert Heinlein being like yeah me and my wife did you know math all over our floor to see if the asteroid orbit made sense.

[00:13:57] Who fucking cares?

[00:13:59] I mean sometimes it's...

[00:14:00] I'm with you.

[00:14:01] That's me being an asshole. Sometimes it's cool but sometimes I'm like who fucking cares that you blew yourself up because of potatoes. I don't.

[00:14:07] And also I hate your tone of voice. Like something about that like snarky too smart for you to whatever.

[00:14:15] It's like you're not like I've met you and you're not fun and you're not funny and I don't think that this does that at all.

[00:14:21] We could get into specifics of the first two episodes now I think.

[00:14:26] Yeah we I really found the show propulsive. In fact I'll say this about the fourth which is nothing at all.

[00:14:32] It's the longest episode by far and I swear I when it ended I thought that was only 30 minutes of TV but it was an hour runtime.

[00:14:41] That's good. Just entertaining, propulsive. The idea is big enough but also brought down to almost like a action movie kind of level.

[00:14:52] Here's the big idea but let's just put it in... let's just give it a story.

[00:14:57] Yeah absolutely and they they dangle the big ideas out there just enough that they're almost like through the first two episodes at least they are like an extra character or place would be if that makes sense instead of being...

[00:15:14] Say that again. What did you...

[00:15:16] That they're almost like an extra character or a setting or something. The big ideas.

[00:15:21] Like you know you're existing in big theoretical questions and big sciencey stuff happens and there are binders that are opened and answers are looked for but what you feel is more a romantic relationship, jealousy between friends, a sense of place.

[00:15:41] You know I was struck in the first episode you know right off the bat he receives this job offer that could change their lives and he says well our lives are here.

[00:15:50] The level of acting by everyone in that scene and writing too and set design and all of these things work together that I really felt that someone is living in a place in the time that they are fully present for.

[00:16:03] And so when these big questions start getting asked the sense of dislocation is that much more profound.

[00:16:10] That's really good. Well said.

[00:16:12] That's really interesting because that really speaks to something that I've sometimes thought which is like you take an Oppenheimer and an Einstein or whatever and they are thinking the big thoughts but at the same time they're completely human right?

[00:16:28] They know better or worse than any of us.

[00:16:31] Right. Right. And this one I mean I think the whole I can't say I shouldn't say this only having seen two episodes in front of Blaine who has seen everything that's available and Donovan who's read the book but it seems to be a question of what is a life, what is home, all these kind of things that are so could be so trite and so cliched in the wrong hands but already through just a couple episodes

[00:17:00] I didn't realize they released at the same time Blaine but it just feels heavy and well earned.

[00:17:07] I'm shocked you could only limit yourself to two episodes because that second episode ends with that huge death.

[00:17:16] Yeah, which was murder I should say.

[00:17:19] Shocking.

[00:17:20] Yeah it kind of was.

[00:17:22] In an era when you know we praise Shogun or at least I did over and over again for not falling into the Ned Stark reality or the House of Cards season two you know and he pushes her in front of the train after all the whatever.

[00:17:36] Obviously there's a little, we're into spoilers here there's some leeway because we're not actually actually losing a member of the cast here in many ways.

[00:17:46] Right.

[00:17:47] But.

[00:17:48] She's still going to continue as the normal wife in our world.

[00:17:52] Right.

[00:17:53] Jennifer Conley by the way.

[00:17:54] What a fun way to play with stakes that you don't lose a major star yet violence is happening that, it's funny to say violence happening brutally but I mean there was no negotiation there was no like here's why I'm here you're in my way.

[00:18:12] Bullet between the eyes let's go.

[00:18:14] Speaking of episode two I really enjoyed the conversation that he has with the alternate versions of his friend and his wife, though she's not his wife in this reality.

[00:18:25] That was fantastic when they're sitting after the gallery.

[00:18:28] Yeah smoking the J.

[00:18:29] Yeah, fantastic.

[00:18:31] It was so good so fast and like, and again I mentioned this last week what would the me who made this decision be doing right now what's he doing.

[00:18:40] Is he by the pool, raking in the millions.

[00:18:44] Yeah, passively.

[00:18:46] Well, and I think it's doing a fine job of making you wonder all of, you know, which which means earning the most passive income.

[00:18:56] Like what would I do if I were put in this situation.

[00:19:00] You know you always, I think with these shows you want to quickly understand the rules of what's happening. And then try to like figure out how you would respond and then overrate your ability to do such a thing.

[00:19:17] In reality I'm probably also going to the hospital and finding out what's trying to find out what's wrong with me, not turning into like a superhero.

[00:19:25] It does remind me of that like tweet you shared with us I think it was yesterday the one that's like fantasy world I would, I would simply not carry the cursed item me like getting brain damage 23 hours a day from my phone right like, what would I do.

[00:19:39] Right. Do you want to know the moment where I thought I would do better than the Joel Edgerton character of Jason.

[00:19:46] What's that? I thought it was an episode one toward the end, where he's getting kidnapped by himself by the alternate version of himself. And I thought as a podcaster, I would recognize my own voice.

[00:19:58] I'd be like, uh, you sound like me. Masked stranger. Yeah, he had a mask on playing. I think 90% of people don't podcast so.

[00:20:08] Yeah, I hear my voice a lot every week so.

[00:20:11] I'm really glad you like it though because I was wondering if it was just me or if it truly was good.

[00:20:19] You know because I'm so fascinated by the premise alone is that what's keeping me here but and I'm also I'm also a fan of Joel Edgerton and Jennifer Conway so it seemed to check off many boxes for me personally and I didn't know if it would for either of y'all.

[00:20:35] They have both been so good.

[00:20:37] This is also led to this is completely out of nowhere, but I'm so excited. And I'm going to get the name wrong to watch it comes at night after because it already looked interesting.

[00:20:46] And then playing you said it was awesome and Joel Edgerton was awesome and I'm like, sold. Okay, I didn't know how good it was going to be but I'm going to watch it.

[00:20:55] Yeah, 2017 horror movie for those listening.

[00:20:59] He's just been so strong in this tough to take your eyes off of him, you know he's kind of having one of those magnetic performances.

[00:21:09] I think Conley has been great too and I think her, the way that she is playing the supremely confident successful artist in one or was in one timeline and then the mother and the, but the happy mother and the happy wife and the, you know, whatever she's doing in the other world, curating gallery spaces are kind of more behind the scenes.

[00:21:32] You know she's mostly happy right because there's that moment where her lawyer asks her.

[00:21:38] Why are you running the marathon? Triathlon. Triathlon, thank you.

[00:21:42] Yeah and she's like, you know, I just want to get out or whatever and she's like there's other ways of avoiding your family anyway it's kind of a, and that's a nice little moment of illusion too.

[00:21:51] Hey is she 100% happy 90% happy?

[00:21:55] I really didn't appreciate all the strays that I caught as someone who enjoys running long distances and you know, as a musician with successful friends.

[00:22:06] Wondering what if? It's great. I don't want to say more.

[00:22:11] I did enough in my own brain while watching this program that you forced me into viewing.

[00:22:17] At this point in time it's called rumination and it's very unhealthy.

[00:22:20] Yeah. What's the Adam doing who won the Grammy? Is that what we're saying?

[00:22:25] What's he doing? Probably making an extra $6 a year from streaming versus now.

[00:22:32] Hey, I think we'll probably continue this one.

[00:22:36] I gotta catch up, you know.

[00:22:38] Well we're off next week so you can...

[00:22:40] You think I'm not gonna waste my life? You think I'm gonna watch TV shows?

[00:22:45] No, I'm gonna be volunteering, wasting my life for charity.

[00:22:50] Let's take a little break here and on the other side we're gonna talk about the documentary that came on Netflix this weekend called Butterfly in the Sky.

[00:22:58] Yeah, we're gonna shift gears into the documentary which just appeared on Netflix this weekend.

[00:23:10] Butterfly in the Sky, the story of reading rainbow.

[00:23:13] It's a 2022 movie but it's only now onto Netflix.

[00:23:17] Now I went into it thinking it was brand new and made for this streamer.

[00:23:20] Me too actually until you literally just said that.

[00:23:23] See, yeah.

[00:23:24] I assumed it was a Netflix movie.

[00:23:26] It wasn't until I was finished watching it that I didn't know it was.

[00:23:30] But yes, directed by Bradford Thomason and Brett Whitcomb and chronicles the journey of the PBS show Reading Rainbow from inception to ending.

[00:23:42] There's nothing really to spoil here but if you want to go into the documentary knowing nothing, you will learn a few things and do it.

[00:23:50] You know, I can recommend it Donovan.

[00:23:52] I would recommend it.

[00:23:53] I would say that as a documentary if you do not have the emotional attachment of watching Reading Rainbow as a child, it might not do that much for you.

[00:24:02] Like it's sort of interesting in the abstract but I really, the notes that were working for me were like I've seen this, right?

[00:24:10] It's not like a Frederick Wiseman documentary where you're like I know absolutely nothing about how the New York Public Library works and he's gonna show me three hours of it and it's gonna be fascinating.

[00:24:21] This is more like if you don't have that touchstone.

[00:24:24] I don't know.

[00:24:25] But yes, thumbs up, sorry.

[00:24:27] Recommendation.

[00:24:28] Sure, no.

[00:24:29] But before we get into any specifics of the film, let me just say this if you're on the fence.

[00:24:35] It's comforting, it's well done and it does not overstay its welcome.

[00:24:38] It tells the story and then just moves on.

[00:24:41] I would agree with that.

[00:24:42] It's less than an hour and a half by about three or four minutes and I think that helps to make it perfectly pleasant.

[00:24:49] That sounds like damning with fame praise and I don't mean it that way but like it doesn't pound something into your head over and over.

[00:24:56] No, it doesn't.

[00:24:57] It just tells the story.

[00:24:58] Well, that's not true.

[00:25:00] What it pounded in my head is that reading is for nerds and the rightfully bullied.

[00:25:06] Oh, you got me.

[00:25:11] Rightfully bullied.

[00:25:14] No, yeah, surely, right?

[00:25:16] That's all of us.

[00:25:17] We all watch Reading Rainbow.

[00:25:18] Am I right about this?

[00:25:19] Oh yeah.

[00:25:20] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:25:21] So to speak for the like if you have an emotional attachment it will be fun.

[00:25:26] Like I haven't watched Reading Rainbow since like the 90s but there was stuff that's like I remember the intro with the dragon.

[00:25:33] Oh yeah, I remember that or like the start.

[00:25:35] So they show the Star Trek episode with LeVar Burton which was very revolutionary to me at the time.

[00:25:43] Like wait, he's on Reading Rainbow but he's also on this TV show like Dad, can you explain this to me?

[00:25:48] Yeah.

[00:25:49] I mean it was probably five or six.

[00:25:50] But I remember that episode so that was kind of fun, right?

[00:25:53] Like oh yeah, I remember that.

[00:25:55] It really pushes a lot of nostalgia buttons.

[00:25:58] Absolutely.

[00:25:59] I can't remember so much related to the show.

[00:26:02] I remember going to my grandmother's house and watching it every morning during the summer and my aunt came by one morning and she made a very harsh criticism of me.

[00:26:13] She said, you've already watched this.

[00:26:15] Kids will just watch anything over and over.

[00:26:18] And as an adult I now see, I now experience the same thing but I don't point it out.

[00:26:24] Like I'll be thinking about my daughter.

[00:26:28] Man she's watched this like five times in a row.

[00:26:32] So I just leave it be because I remember that just hurt my feelings so much.

[00:26:36] But it's good.

[00:26:38] I appreciate that my thought.

[00:26:40] So when I was two or three years old, apparently I wanted to watch Bambi every morning.

[00:26:46] But I would always...

[00:26:47] Jesus Christ.

[00:26:48] Yeah but if you remember, there's a bit with a rainstorm and then when Bambi's mother is dead and that really scared me.

[00:26:55] So like my dad would put it in and fall asleep on the sofa and then like wouldn't know to wake up in time to settle me down.

[00:27:02] But like I appreciate that he wasn't like when I was four like you fucking kid.

[00:27:06] Like you waited until I was an adult.

[00:27:08] Oh that's your point.

[00:27:09] But you loved it.

[00:27:10] Over and over.

[00:27:11] And I suffered.

[00:27:13] When reading Rainbow, I was always so sad that it was a repeat.

[00:27:18] But I would watch it, you know.

[00:27:19] But I was just like...I was also doubly sad that I couldn't find the books in my library because we did not have a bookstore where I lived.

[00:27:27] Library and library only.

[00:27:29] And I would think, they don't have that book.

[00:27:32] We don't have Where the Wild Things Are.

[00:27:33] We only have the dictionary.

[00:27:37] And that's illegal now.

[00:27:39] It does make me wonder where do we meet kids now?

[00:27:43] Like they talk about we had to meet them where they were and they were sitting in front of the TV during the summers.

[00:27:47] We meet them in Bluey.

[00:27:49] Do we?

[00:27:51] Absolutely.

[00:27:52] I think it's YouTube and TikTok.

[00:27:53] Kids love Bluey.

[00:27:54] Yeah, that too.

[00:27:55] We're roblox.

[00:27:57] And video games, that's right.

[00:27:58] You know, the YouTube and TikTok do have their reading niches, right?

[00:28:03] But there's also this strange toxicity that's with the book talk.

[00:28:09] You're familiar with this, right?

[00:28:11] While I was sitting watching this movie, sorry documentary, I was thinking like, wow, I hate this so much less than I hate the very idea of book talk.

[00:28:20] Yes.

[00:28:21] Did reading Rainbow influence you to be a librarian media specialist that you are now?

[00:28:27] Can you pinpoint that?

[00:28:28] No, I can't necessarily pinpoint that.

[00:28:31] But I do think which it's not what I do now.

[00:28:33] But I think when I originally went into the program, I thought it would be really cool to be like a children's librarian because of everything they express in reading Rainbow.

[00:28:43] Like I think that's just so important and informative and powerful.

[00:28:48] One of my favorite moments in the doc was the creation of the theme song.

[00:28:53] Yeah, I like that too.

[00:28:55] I had no idea was that involved.

[00:28:57] Adam, if you only get a chance to watch a little of this, you should definitely catch the guy recreating the theme song on and his studio there.

[00:29:06] Do they do like a classic albums?

[00:29:08] Like a five minute version.

[00:29:10] Yeah.

[00:29:11] Isolated tracks.

[00:29:12] Yes.

[00:29:13] Get everything out on the board.

[00:29:14] He builds it.

[00:29:15] He builds it.

[00:29:16] And I'm like, no, it did not.

[00:29:18] And he's like, we're almost there.

[00:29:19] And I was like, wait, there's more?

[00:29:23] I'm also happy they brought in the funding for PBS and how that's still an issue.

[00:29:28] It always is going to be an issue.

[00:29:30] Sitting and watching this, I was like, please edit this out if you think I'll get canceled.

[00:29:35] Like goddamn Republicans.

[00:29:37] Say more.

[00:29:38] Going after Newt Gingrich.

[00:29:40] You know, like Newt Gingrich.

[00:29:42] Like just it's like the same.

[00:29:44] This is me on a little bit of a soapbox because it's hitting libraries.

[00:29:48] But like it's the same rhetoric.

[00:29:49] Oh, it's so anti-family.

[00:29:51] Point to it.

[00:29:52] Point to it, please.

[00:29:54] And then of course, no child left behind.

[00:29:56] Like Blaine, I'm sure you see this, but like my wife is a college writing professor and she's like the years.

[00:30:06] Like basically as soon as it switched to nothing but, I noticed a difference in writing and not a good one.

[00:30:13] And it's like, and you just like this has just continued, right?

[00:30:17] Like you've just destroyed any like, yeah, you can't quantify love of reading.

[00:30:23] Screw you.

[00:30:25] Yeah.

[00:30:26] It's just terrible.

[00:30:27] And to be fair, like there are a lot of technocratic Democrats that think this way too.

[00:30:32] Where if everything's not measurable, then it's not real.

[00:30:36] Back then maybe more so with Newt Gingrich speaking of him.

[00:30:40] Back during his day, it was a lot more of funding.

[00:30:42] Like, well, we just if we can just trim this budget right here, we and we don't need this.

[00:30:47] You know, I think we've even seen that right like in like the Trump era and stuff that's and I think they're laying the groundwork for that with the possible Trump presidency.

[00:30:56] Everything like NPR.

[00:30:57] It's just this liberal, you know, what's his face?

[00:31:00] Not Barry Weiss.

[00:31:02] The guy that ripped off that.

[00:31:03] Well, it's so liberal.

[00:31:05] It's like, okay, guy, come on.

[00:31:08] Right.

[00:31:09] I think it's just playing the foundation for further degradation of or I remember, you know, when I lived in Alabama, the year that PBS funding in Alabama became less neutral, right?

[00:31:21] Became more.

[00:31:22] The programs that could be on there were more according to the whims of the governance in Alabama.

[00:31:26] You know, it's just it's the same everything.

[00:31:29] Everything old is new again.

[00:31:31] The documentary weaves through some various emotions, I thought really well.

[00:31:35] How it when it tracked the joy of beginning versus this oppositional funding, you know, what do we do now?

[00:31:45] But I'm like you.

[00:31:47] I was appreciative that it included this shift into testing from no child left behind, which still reverberates.

[00:31:55] It's just testing, testing constantly.

[00:31:57] I see it in my own child who's only in first grade.

[00:32:00] I see it just with kids, young adults because they're not kids anymore when they get to me.

[00:32:08] But just like they some not all and by no means all of them and by no means am I blaming the students because my students are really exceptional.

[00:32:20] But a lot of them just really struggle with things like, you know, like they can like remember the little bit.

[00:32:27] But if you ask them like, OK, like put out these dates and history and how they relate to each other is like.

[00:32:33] Yeah.

[00:32:34] Or even like reading is very, very difficult.

[00:32:37] Reading and extracting a point to take out and apply can be very, very difficult to them because it's not what they've been trained for.

[00:32:44] You know, and all of a sudden they're in college and the professor is saying, hey, check out some scientific literature.

[00:32:49] And it's just like it's light years beyond what they've done or away from.

[00:32:54] They're more like different genres, but it's tough.

[00:32:59] And that's a direct result from testing, testing, pick the right answer.

[00:33:02] But also I think that teachers and I'm speaking to myself, you can squeeze in sometimes some inferential type thinking and connection making.

[00:33:13] But the questions, the questions aren't just recall.

[00:33:18] Yeah.

[00:33:19] It's a matter of getting away from just that sort of recall kind of thinking.

[00:33:23] Yeah. And this is a completely other soapbox, but I do think that this is the reason students come in.

[00:33:29] I mean, one of the reasons because students do what they do for reasons that have been consistent across time.

[00:33:35] But like I do think that because they've been given these little snippets and then like summarize it or like pull out the main point.

[00:33:43] Now they come into college and they're like, oh, I can just use chat GPT for my my discussion board question.

[00:33:49] Right.

[00:33:50] And it's like to any students listening, all of your teachers and professors can tell.

[00:33:57] And the reason they can tell is because it's not sufficient to the assignment.

[00:34:01] It's just like it's bad. It sucks.

[00:34:03] It's not good. But when you're all you've been taught to do is summarize a little snippet.

[00:34:08] I could see how you would be like this is adequate.

[00:34:11] Why do I need to think about this? Yeah. That's a whole other soapbox.

[00:34:16] Certainly tracks the show originated with an educator.

[00:34:19] Yes, absolutely. And I like I like that it's not only an educator, but an educator that was like a reading educator.

[00:34:27] Yeah. Someone who's like, oh, my ideas work.

[00:34:30] I promise you. Have you ever listened to this is a little bit off the point, but I was thinking about obviously this is this documentary is somewhat of the hagiography of Luvart Burton.

[00:34:41] But that's that's purposely fine. Right. He seems central.

[00:34:45] He seems like a nice dude, too. Right. Yeah.

[00:34:47] Have you ever but they talked about and they showed a little bit of his Luvart Burton reads podcast.

[00:34:52] Have you ever listened to that? I never have.

[00:34:54] It's actually kind of great because he picks short stories that he loves and reads them.

[00:35:00] And they are like it's everything from Elmore Leonard to Octavia Butler.

[00:35:04] And he is like he is a good reader and a good narrator.

[00:35:08] So if you get you've got some time to kill.

[00:35:10] Also, the other nice thing about them is he will often select stories that are hard to find otherwise.

[00:35:16] Not always, but sometimes you just listen to him.

[00:35:19] Well, he's had the practice. He certainly has.

[00:35:22] We've talked about everything but the documentary, it seems.

[00:35:26] But, you know, the documentary kind of speaks for itself.

[00:35:29] It does. Like my feelings on it was like, you know, like I did appreciate getting the as an adult,

[00:35:36] like the behind the scenes look to what they did for kids, especially like and stuff I didn't remember too.

[00:35:42] Right. Like we're like talking about homelessness.

[00:35:44] I wasn't watching it by the time they tackled 9-11.

[00:35:50] No, you were there. You were in the shit.

[00:35:53] You were in the shit.

[00:35:55] One of my questions for y'all was going to be what year did they stop making it?

[00:36:00] And I am shocked that they covered 9-11.

[00:36:03] Yeah, they went to the so in the documentary they cover this.

[00:36:07] But they decided to go to the public school that was closest to ground zero,

[00:36:12] which had actually been closed because of the, you know,

[00:36:15] the environmental effects of massive buildings falling down and catching on fire and all that.

[00:36:21] And talk to the kids about what their experiences of that day was like.

[00:36:24] And then the aftermath too, which was really, you know,

[00:36:27] it did like they put a little Mr. Rogers in here.

[00:36:30] And it really did remind me of like Mr. Rogers coming, you know,

[00:36:33] like battling cancer coming back to talk directly to kids.

[00:36:37] I do think one of the things that I really loved about this

[00:36:42] and I think is in tune with the show is that it does not talk down to children.

[00:36:47] And in fact, like, like I'd forgotten about like those book reviews, right?

[00:36:51] But like they just let kids like talk about, hey, like be completely weird kids.

[00:36:56] Yeah. And say, here's what I liked about this book.

[00:36:58] And like it's so like it's so maybe not 100 percent,

[00:37:02] but it's so rare to find something that's educational, but not didactic.

[00:37:06] Right. We're like they're not like the kids are not like,

[00:37:09] except for like the broad love of reading, right?

[00:37:11] Like the kids are not being forced to come to any conclusion.

[00:37:15] You know, this is just like, hey, worms eat bats in this cave.

[00:37:18] Isn't that awesome? You know, like, you know, there's nothing.

[00:37:23] And so many books are evergreen.

[00:37:25] So I could sit my daughter down and I think she'd still dig all these episodes of Reading Rainbow, if not, you know, the majority of them, I suppose.

[00:37:33] I think that that is another like the documentary that speak to it, but kind of an unspoken thing is like they were really on a streak.

[00:37:42] Like, you know, as a kid, right?

[00:37:44] Like if you ever encountered like that reading rainbow sign on a book, you're like, oh, this is going to be good.

[00:37:49] The Oprah's Book Club of the Children's World.

[00:37:52] For six year olds.

[00:37:54] It totally was.

[00:37:56] It was funny to me, just a personal thing when I started watching it and they said, well, we wanted to love Bart Burton, but he was a huge star.

[00:38:03] And I thought to myself, wait, was he?

[00:38:05] And then they go, he was in Roots and I go, oh, shit, he was in Roots.

[00:38:09] Literally the biggest thing.

[00:38:11] Yeah.

[00:38:12] Like that year.

[00:38:13] How could I forget that?

[00:38:14] Yeah, I just assumed he started with Reading Rainbow, but I'm a dunce.

[00:38:19] He was like 18 when he was in Roots.

[00:38:22] Yeah.

[00:38:23] It's funny because I both knew, I simultaneously knew him from Reading Rainbow and then my dad watching The Next Generation, which led to like this like mind freak of like Reading Rainbow is on the set.

[00:38:35] I don't understand that.

[00:38:37] The episode with the guy who did the theme song?

[00:38:42] Yeah.

[00:38:43] I can remember watching that one.

[00:38:45] There were a couple, I did like that, like I mentioned a couple, but there were a couple that were like, oh, I remember that.

[00:38:51] Yeah.

[00:38:52] I watched that.

[00:38:53] Talk to me about reading today, Dee.

[00:38:55] And I'll chime in with this one anecdote is that people still read, like students still read, believe it or not.

[00:39:02] It's not Desolation Row out there.

[00:39:06] I still see a lot of students walk around with books.

[00:39:10] True.

[00:39:11] Like that I see personally.

[00:39:13] Now, that's anecdotal.

[00:39:14] But so what do you do to get kids to be interested in reading?

[00:39:19] It's still probably not enough, right?

[00:39:22] What did you say, Donovan?

[00:39:23] I said pay them.

[00:39:25] That is a million dollar question, right?

[00:39:27] Because I was even just reading a article about how like literally just having your phone, not being on it, but just having your phone while you're reading takes seems to take a bit of our attention away from what we're reading.

[00:39:40] That's true.

[00:39:41] Right? Like reading is not something that like we evolved for, whereas like looking at like other people and being having like novel stimuli.

[00:39:50] Like, yes, we evolved for that.

[00:39:52] We're seeking that out.

[00:39:53] I don't really know how you make a kid love reading.

[00:39:57] Some of these teachers out here are doing something right.

[00:39:59] Because like my boss's kid, she loves reading so much so.

[00:40:04] Like, she's like, how old is she?

[00:40:06] This happened when she was nine.

[00:40:08] She's 10 now.

[00:40:09] I was reading Under the Volcano by Malcolm Lowry, which I didn't enjoy.

[00:40:13] And she was reading.

[00:40:15] Donovan just goes ahead and throws the author under the bus.

[00:40:18] He's fine.

[00:40:19] It's basically the only thing he read.

[00:40:20] He was an old drunk.

[00:40:21] But she was reading.

[00:40:23] Have you seen like these like warriors books?

[00:40:25] You know, they're like, they're like, I think they're like like cats and dogs that can talk.

[00:40:30] Does that mean?

[00:40:31] It doesn't matter.

[00:40:32] But she comes up to me and she's like, what are you reading?

[00:40:35] I'm like, oh, it's it's Malcolm Lowry's Under the Volcano.

[00:40:38] It's one day in the life of a British consul in a in a Mexican town.

[00:40:42] She's like, does it have violence in it?

[00:40:44] I'm like, no, not really.

[00:40:46] She's like, I only like books with violence in it.

[00:40:48] So like something's going right.

[00:40:51] Right. Like she loves to read and she knows what she likes.

[00:40:54] Yeah.

[00:40:55] But man, oh, man.

[00:40:56] Like, you know, how do you like how do you beat the iPad?

[00:41:00] Yeah.

[00:41:01] Well, my daughter likes reading.

[00:41:03] Good for her.

[00:41:04] Still, she's still she's out there.

[00:41:06] She's sick still.

[00:41:07] Right.

[00:41:08] Yeah, she can read short little books by herself like the Mo Williams books.

[00:41:14] Oh, yeah.

[00:41:15] Yeah.

[00:41:16] Oh, man.

[00:41:17] She loves those.

[00:41:18] I buy her one of those probably once a week, it seems like.

[00:41:20] That's awesome.

[00:41:21] Do you remember what were your love for reading began?

[00:41:25] Yeah.

[00:41:26] My reading rainbow might be on the right track.

[00:41:28] My dad read to me when I was I can remember being like like before bed.

[00:41:34] Right.

[00:41:35] And I can remember being probably four, maybe five.

[00:41:37] And he read The Hobbit to me and I just thought over success.

[00:41:41] I just thought it was great.

[00:41:42] And like he loved it.

[00:41:43] Right.

[00:41:44] So you pick up some of that.

[00:41:45] Right.

[00:41:46] Like it's like it's your dad.

[00:41:47] It's something he loves is something you love.

[00:41:50] You know.

[00:41:51] And so just from that, I just like fell in like also like a lot of the stuff that

[00:41:56] my dad liked as a kid.

[00:41:57] I also like so he would recommend things to me.

[00:42:00] And it's like, yes, actually, I do like this.

[00:42:02] And I also started reading fairly early.

[00:42:05] I think like I didn't like I was still at the stage where I would like watch Sesame

[00:42:09] Street.

[00:42:10] But by the time I was like when I started first grade, I was reading little chapter

[00:42:14] books.

[00:42:15] And by the end of sixth grade, I could read like like The Chronicles of Narnia,

[00:42:19] you know, like a simple novel.

[00:42:21] And Adam, you were beaten into reading Morgan Morrow took a belt to you every

[00:42:28] time.

[00:42:29] Pretty much.

[00:42:30] No, it was the same as what Donovan described.

[00:42:33] I mean, I don't it has been so much a part of my life that I don't remember

[00:42:38] the details of it not existing.

[00:42:40] Meaning that's a very Harper Lee quote there, Adam.

[00:42:43] Is it?

[00:42:44] Yeah.

[00:42:45] Where Scout says readings like breathing, I wouldn't you know, you

[00:42:49] don't notice it until it's gone away or something like that.

[00:42:52] Yeah.

[00:42:53] And I think it's having stories read to me both age appropriate and not.

[00:42:58] Donovan talked about being read The Hobbit.

[00:43:01] Apparently my dad told her told me the my dad did not read word for word,

[00:43:07] but decided it would be appropriate to tell me the story of For Whom the

[00:43:10] Bell Tolls and young three year old Adam.

[00:43:14] And that was what when the earth moved means.

[00:43:17] Right.

[00:43:18] I thought it was bad writing then in an otherwise great novel.

[00:43:21] And I stand by that opinion today.

[00:43:23] Yeah, I'm right there with you like excise that not because it's sex

[00:43:27] because it sucks.

[00:43:29] But you know, like I was just gonna say, I think particularly being from

[00:43:34] a this is not something people brag about anymore, I guess.

[00:43:38] But in the good sense of the word, a very southern family.

[00:43:43] And by that, I mean when they all lived in the same town,

[00:43:46] it was a lot of meals shared and the same stories got told over and

[00:43:50] over again so that I was almost born into like needing to learn this

[00:43:55] family mythology that almost went hand in hand with reading.

[00:43:59] If that makes like stories are very important.

[00:44:01] I can't I can never think of a time where that wasn't true.

[00:44:05] And, you know, things like reading Rainbow and whatever just kind of

[00:44:09] expanded the scope of what was out there.

[00:44:13] I do think to another thing for me, I was thinking this is Adam said it,

[00:44:17] but like I had good models like my dad read like even to the point

[00:44:21] where like if I was in the tub, he would be reading.

[00:44:23] Like he was keeping an eye on me.

[00:44:24] I didn't drown.

[00:44:25] Right.

[00:44:26] And like he was he was good, right?

[00:44:27] Like he wasn't just ignoring me.

[00:44:28] Like I'd be like, what are you reading?

[00:44:29] And he'd tell you know, like he'd tell me.

[00:44:31] But I think just like that kind of model really.

[00:44:34] And then like my mom helped me.

[00:44:36] She took an interest in like developing like early literacy.

[00:44:40] And this was before like phonics education and completely gone out the

[00:44:44] room window.

[00:44:45] Right.

[00:44:46] So she helped me like sound words out.

[00:44:47] You know, so that was I think having two models like that was was

[00:44:51] really big.

[00:44:52] All right.

[00:44:53] Was two related stories.

[00:44:56] I did not have models, which I was curious.

[00:44:59] I was I was actually kind of curious about your story.

[00:45:02] Blaine.

[00:45:03] Well, no one read books in my house, no adult.

[00:45:06] They didn't have time or energy probably.

[00:45:10] But my grandfather would buy me endless amounts of comic books like I

[00:45:15] could go and he would buy five at a time and pay for it.

[00:45:20] And people I can recall people asking him maybe why or he would always

[00:45:25] comment to the cash register.

[00:45:27] He said he would say this this boy loves to read and as long as he's

[00:45:31] reading I'll buy him whatever he wants, whatever he wants.

[00:45:34] And it but it was comic books.

[00:45:36] So it was questionable on like is this good?

[00:45:38] And I think that that triggered me to picture what I'm reading so

[00:45:42] that when I did get into things that weren't comic related or you

[00:45:47] know, school, I could picture what was going on in the text and that

[00:45:51] helps me still to this day.

[00:45:53] But the second part of this, which is just depressingly sad, he couldn't

[00:45:57] read.

[00:45:58] Oh, wow.

[00:45:59] And he that's so awesome that he like did that for you.

[00:46:03] Oh, yeah.

[00:46:04] He was I can remember him telling me over and over get all the

[00:46:07] education you can because nobody will take that away from you.

[00:46:10] Yeah, things like that.

[00:46:12] Just big statements like that.

[00:46:14] But he couldn't read.

[00:46:15] Now, this is where it gets incredibly sad.

[00:46:17] So get grab your Kleenex.

[00:46:18] I didn't know that and I would take books to him picture books,

[00:46:22] whatever, you know, where the wild things are.

[00:46:23] Take your pick and I take them to him and I'd say, hey, let's read

[00:46:26] this or you read this to me.

[00:46:28] And he he just went by the pictures.

[00:46:31] When did you realize that pretty, pretty quick, pretty quickly after I

[00:46:39] could read because I realized it man.

[00:46:41] He's having a lot of trouble sounding that word out.

[00:46:43] I don't think he can read.

[00:46:44] That's certainly better, sweet, because he must have just loved like

[00:46:46] what I hear is like he must have just loved you an awful lot, even to

[00:46:50] like expose himself to like you figuring out he couldn't read but

[00:46:54] wanting to read.

[00:46:55] But yeah, like that's very the same common thread of important

[00:47:01] adults for all of us turning reading into a very noble pursuit.

[00:47:06] You know, like this is a life worth living includes this.

[00:47:12] This is higher than what your your immediate day to day is.

[00:47:16] Ideas matter that sort of thing.

[00:47:18] Yes, yeah, for sure.

[00:47:20] That's how that's how we're here on this podcast.

[00:47:24] Unfortunately, before we say goodbye, another reminder that we are

[00:47:30] off next week, but pin your question and send it to the Alabama take

[00:47:34] at gmail.com or hit us up on any social media and send us a

[00:47:40] question if you're not for us to answer a question for you in episode

[00:47:44] 200.

[00:47:45] Wow.

[00:47:46] For Adam and Donovan, I'm Blaine and this has been great.

[00:47:49] We'll talk to y'all in two weeks.