The Numbers Never Lie

[00:00:01] Hey everybody, it's Mallory from The Staredown and in this week's episode it is the first

[00:00:07] episode of the new series that I'm going to start that's going to come out periodically outside of the normal schedule

[00:00:13] But we're going to be talking about women and coaching and officiating positions

[00:00:18] So if you're ready sit back relax grab a drink or two and listen to the staredown

[00:00:48] All right, so really quick shout out to my friend Earl

[00:00:51] He is the listener who gave this suggestion

[00:00:54] I think it's a fantastic topic and part of the reason why i'm going to do it as a series is because when I started researching it

[00:01:00] There ended up being so much more information

[00:01:02] Than I ever thought I would find

[00:01:05] In some ways that's been really good and other ways it's been very bad because you can totally get overwhelmed by it

[00:01:10] But I want to start out today with numbers because I think

[00:01:15] Numbers it's easier

[00:01:17] To kind of visualize right

[00:01:19] So in my search for numbers I found a great organization called the institute for diversity and ethics in sport

[00:01:28] tides t i d e s

[00:01:31] The non-bama fan and me doesn't really love it, but it's okay. It's okay, but they do

[00:01:36] yearly report cards for

[00:01:39] college sports

[00:01:40] pro sports all of these things and what their racial diversity is in terms of athletes and

[00:01:47] Also coaches and support staff. So I figured we'd start here and where I really want to start is

[00:01:53] With the nc double a

[00:01:56] Tennis those kinds of things because the last I checked there weren't any

[00:02:00] Female head football coaches, especially in division one in division two. It's five percent, which is 107

[00:02:06] In division three it was seven percent, which is a total number of 281

[00:02:12] For women's sports. Thank goodness. We get a little bit better here guys and girls

[00:02:18] Everybody we get better here. So in 2021 2022

[00:02:23] for division one women's sports

[00:02:25] 42.1 percent were head coaches

[00:02:28] women head coaches of women's sports

[00:02:32] 42 percent

[00:02:34] That means that there's about 58

[00:02:37] That are men coaching women's sports. Okay. I just I want to make sure you guys get that

[00:02:42] In division two it's 35.6 percent

[00:02:47] Which means

[00:02:50] There's about 65 percent that are men

[00:02:55] Okay in division three

[00:02:58] It's 43.8 percent. So 43.8 percent of the total women's sports head coaches are women

[00:03:08] About 50. Yeah, I'd say about 56 percent

[00:03:11] 56.2 percent if we're going to be precise here are men

[00:03:15] so basically

[00:03:16] nowhere in the 2021

[00:03:20] year division one two or three have

[00:03:23] At least half of the women's sports head coaches

[00:03:28] Be women

[00:03:31] Mind boggling guys mind boggling, but it's okay, right men men absolutely know what women want and what women need

[00:03:39] I won't sing Christina Aguilera for you. So you're very very welcome

[00:03:44] all right, so

[00:03:46] We can get into kind of the racial diversity, but I'm saving that one for another day because I just

[00:03:54] That's going to be a whole

[00:03:56] other thing

[00:03:58] In and of itself like it's just going to be

[00:04:01] A lot it's going to be a lot. So we'll hit on the racial diversity later

[00:04:07] um

[00:04:09] So let's

[00:04:11] Let's then go into some of the other stuff

[00:04:15] And guys i'm scrolling down through these because these these things are like

[00:04:20] 99 pages long. There's a lot of stuff to go to

[00:04:23] Okay, college assistant coaches division one. This was the next one I wanted to get to

[00:04:29] so

[00:04:31] There are a total of

[00:04:34] 2021 2022 school year again women's sports

[00:04:39] There were a total of

[00:04:43] 3,443 assistant head coaches

[00:04:47] That's 47.4

[00:04:51] That means 52.6 percent of women's

[00:04:55] sports assistant coaches

[00:04:57] Were men so again more than half are men here in men's sports

[00:05:04] 91.3 percent were men

[00:05:07] 8.7 percent were women so 761

[00:05:12] compared to

[00:05:13] 7,955 but hey it I'll be honest

[00:05:17] for division one for there to be

[00:05:21] That many assistant coaches that are women on men's sports. I was kind of impressed. I was honestly expecting 500 or less

[00:05:29] um

[00:05:30] I just that one was that one was something to me in division two

[00:05:36] women's sports

[00:05:38] We get better here guys. We're finally getting there

[00:05:41] 49.8 percent of women's sports

[00:05:44] assistant coaches in division two were women

[00:05:47] 50.2 percent were men

[00:05:51] it's

[00:05:52] 2110 versus

[00:05:54] 2097 so we're talking a difference of 13 coaches here, but still

[00:06:00] It's better. Oh, that's not good though. It's still just not good to say that

[00:06:05] for men's sports

[00:06:07] This one was the shocking one to me

[00:06:10] for men's sports

[00:06:11] division two 2021 2022 school year

[00:06:14] 89.2 percent of assistant coaches for men's sports were men. That means 10.8 percent were women

[00:06:22] 547 female assistant coaches for division two men's sports teams

[00:06:30] Good for you division two good for you

[00:06:35] Now for division three

[00:06:37] women's sports same school year

[00:06:41] These are the numbers I like to see 53.1 of assistant coaches for division three schools were women and that's for women's sports

[00:06:50] 46.9 percent were men for men's sports

[00:06:54] Your mind's going to be blown guys. Just hold on

[00:06:58] 87.4 percent of men's sports

[00:07:02] assistant coaches are men 87.4 that means 12.6 percent

[00:07:09] Are women that is a total of 1,267 female assistant coaches

[00:07:16] for men's sports and division three

[00:07:19] Can we just

[00:07:21] Round of applause for division three y'all round of applause you got to start somewhere, right?

[00:07:26] Like this is how you go and you learn and you learn under these coaches and you get in a weight room and you figure out how to run programs and you

[00:07:34] And a lot of times in women's sports, you know your budgets especially in college

[00:07:39] They're not very big and then you get

[00:07:44] You know

[00:07:44] Raked over the coals because you're losing money every year even if you are winning

[00:07:49] A division one basketball championship for women

[00:07:53] Looking at you lsu y'all lost money. It's okay for the most part everybody does so, you know

[00:07:59] it's okay, but

[00:08:01] division three obviously

[00:08:03] Seems to understand that it doesn't really matter like if you know what you're talking about like let's go for it

[00:08:08] Now what I would love to see and i'm sure I will find more of this as I do continue to research is

[00:08:14] You know, what are these things? Are they is it rifle? I don't you know

[00:08:18] You somebody can shoot a gun doesn't matter if it's

[00:08:22] Male or female like the rules I believe are the same depending on which event you're doing

[00:08:26] Same thing for track, you know, I'm sure like weight room. Yeah, there are some different things

[00:08:30] But you know, they're female personal trainers in the world that men go see and vice versa

[00:08:34] So yeah, I I I think these numbers are going to eventually start telling

[00:08:40] Telling what we think we know

[00:08:44] But actually like I said kind of putting that numerical

[00:08:48] marker in our heads so

[00:08:52] I just i'm interested to dive into this more

[00:08:56] All right now. Let's go to college athletics directors division one 2021

[00:09:01] to 2022

[00:09:05] division one

[00:09:07] 49

[00:09:08] So 15 percent were women

[00:09:11] 278 were men so 85 percent

[00:09:16] division two

[00:09:19] 25 percent are women with 70 75 percent are men with 210

[00:09:25] division three

[00:09:27] 33.3 percent are women 147 total

[00:09:32] 66.7 percent were men so 295

[00:09:36] and like I said

[00:09:38] I'm going to kill you all with some numbers here. So

[00:09:41] I promise this is going somewhere just hang with me

[00:09:44] college senior athletic administrators associate athletics directors for division one

[00:09:52] There is a total of 774 women

[00:09:56] compared to

[00:09:57] 1585 men so it's

[00:10:00] About 33 compared to

[00:10:02] 67 percent for division two

[00:10:05] 165 women compared to 236 men so it's 41 compared to about 59 percent

[00:10:13] In division three man, y'all just keep making me happy here 48.8 percent are women that's 216

[00:10:21] 227 are men so hey the ladies are catching up in division three for us for associate athletics directors

[00:10:29] I feel like i'm seeing a trend here though, right like it seems like we're going

[00:10:36] We're going we're going better as we go down

[00:10:41] is it

[00:10:43] I don't know like any any thoughts on correlations there if you have any ideas. Let me know just please let me know

[00:10:49] Why you think it it could be that

[00:10:51] Um and guys like we could keep on going on these but one of the things that I do want to hit are some of the other things

[00:10:57] Like the officials faculty athletics representatives

[00:11:01] 2021 2022 school year

[00:11:03] division one

[00:11:06] women 129 total men

[00:11:09] 211 so it's 38 compared to 62 percent

[00:11:13] division two

[00:11:15] Oh division two you got to step it up here 89 women compared to 192 men so 32 compared to 68 percent

[00:11:24] I know we're going to be shocked again, right

[00:11:26] Division three 196 women

[00:11:29] 299 men so about 40 and 60 percent sports information directors now

[00:11:38] These are fun

[00:11:40] What I do find a little disheartening on this is it doesn't give me

[00:11:45] The total number it just gives me the racial breakout

[00:11:48] But that's going to be a fun one to to dive into because I think on that one

[00:11:53] I'm I'm going to do a little bit more as

[00:11:56] And I'm I'm only doing more on the sports information directors because I worked in sports information in college

[00:12:01] And so I think that's just

[00:12:02] Super super cool

[00:12:05] um

[00:12:06] Some of the other things that this

[00:12:08] This thing breaks out

[00:12:09] and it's

[00:12:11] So cool college professional administration by position

[00:12:15] and it's

[00:12:16] Like academic advisor counselors business managers compliance coordinators

[00:12:20] Officers equipment managers fundraising development managers facility manager life skills coordinator promotions marketing sports information directors associate

[00:12:28] Or assistant sides strength coaches ticket managers

[00:12:33] They break it down

[00:12:35] It doesn't again. It doesn't give me total numbers. It just gives me the breakdown of racial makeup here

[00:12:42] So that that'll be a fun one to dive into

[00:12:48] now

[00:12:49] The part that the ncda ncda probably doesn't want us to talk about

[00:12:54] But we dive into their

[00:12:56] Into theirs like what are their

[00:12:59] ncda executive

[00:13:02] You know profiles look like what does their entire staff look like so for 2022

[00:13:08] There were a total of 24 ncda executive senior or vice presidents

[00:13:13] Seven of which were women 17 were men so 41 percent

[00:13:17] All right, it's not great. It's it's not bad though. It's not bad. I again. I was probably expecting if I'm being honest around 30 percent

[00:13:26] ncda managing directors or just directors

[00:13:29] as a whole

[00:13:32] Out of 108 51 or women so that's about 47 percent. All right. We're getting better

[00:13:36] So again trend here the high high ups

[00:13:40] And they like their their men but as you keep kind of working your way down the women are okay

[00:13:45] So we're starting to figure this out

[00:13:48] Once you get into the ncda administrators, there's a total of 368

[00:13:53] 213 were female

[00:13:56] so about 58 percent

[00:13:58] again, definitely seeing a trend

[00:14:00] total full-time ncda staff

[00:14:03] 510 total full-time staff 288 were women so about

[00:14:08] 57 percent

[00:14:10] So not horrible right not horrible at all

[00:14:13] but I think this whole thing and

[00:14:19] And y'all this is these are just the data breakdowns like this is just about the last 30 pages of this document

[00:14:25] that means the first like

[00:14:27] 60 to 70 pages

[00:14:29] Are the narrative that go behind this and they break this down and they talk about what it means and where

[00:14:35] are the spots where

[00:14:37] You know we could focus on bringing in more women or bringing in more racially diverse hires

[00:14:43] I

[00:14:45] As a data junkie like again, I worked in sports information. I obviously love data especially data around sports

[00:14:53] This is just mind-blowing to me

[00:14:56] absolutely

[00:14:57] mind-blowing

[00:14:59] Now i'm going to give you guys

[00:15:01] Something else that's mind-blowing. I think I told you the same organization also provides this information for

[00:15:09] professional leagues

[00:15:11] so

[00:15:12] I have the 2022 nba racial and gender report card statistics

[00:15:19] league offices

[00:15:21] 43.4 percent

[00:15:24] are women

[00:15:25] president ceo

[00:15:27] 10.5 percent head coaches none

[00:15:31] assistant coaches 3.6 percent

[00:15:34] no general managers

[00:15:36] 30 percent

[00:15:37] our team vice presidents

[00:15:40] team management

[00:15:42] 39 percent are women

[00:15:44] professional administration jobs, which I think would probably go back to like the

[00:15:49] equipment staff all of that like what we just went through with the ncda 34.2 percent

[00:15:54] so

[00:15:56] The nba actually got an overall grade

[00:16:00] As an a which I think is

[00:16:04] Interesting because

[00:16:07] That's not great now. They even go on and further break it down

[00:16:12] For the league office, you know the grade 43.4 percent being women that guy that gave them an a vice presidents 30 percent

[00:16:19] That only gave them a c plus team management 39 percent a b plus

[00:16:23] professional and men 34.2 was a b and ceo president 10 and a half percent that gave them a big fat f

[00:16:30] f

[00:16:32] Which I mean, yeah, they don't they don't really want to they don't really want to have women

[00:16:38] Owning right?

[00:16:40] All right. Now let's go on to major league baseball 2022

[00:16:45] central office

[00:16:47] 29.2 percent are women president ceo's 3.8 percent

[00:16:51] Zero head coaches or managers assistant coaches 1.3 percent general managers

[00:16:58] 3.3 percent

[00:17:00] team vice presidents 18.3 percent

[00:17:03] senior administrators 27.4 percent and professional administration 26.9 percent

[00:17:11] So for central office 21 or 29.1 got major league baseball a c plus team vp's at 22 got them a d

[00:17:20] senior administrators 28.5 got them a c professional administration jobs

[00:17:26] 25.5 got them a c minus ceo president of zero got them a big fat f

[00:17:32] In this fun, I think this is so fun and

[00:17:36] You can't you can't argue this right like you just

[00:17:43] You can't argue this

[00:17:46] Numbers are numbers like if you have two people and they are both male

[00:17:50] Then that means you have zero females like

[00:17:52] It's not that hard

[00:17:54] so major league soccer

[00:17:56] 2022

[00:17:57] League office women 40.5 percent president ceo's 14.3 percent head coaches none

[00:18:04] assistant coaches none general managers 20 or i'm sorry 2.8 percent

[00:18:10] Let's not give them more than they deserve 2.8 percent for general managers team vice presidents 28.7 percent

[00:18:16] senior administrators 28.2 percent professional

[00:18:20] administration jobs 37.1 percent

[00:18:24] 40.5 being in the league office gave them an a minus 28.7 vice presidents for teams gave them a c minus

[00:18:32] senior administrators 28.2 got them a d

[00:18:37] professional administration jobs 37.1 got them a c ceo president of 14.3 got them an f

[00:18:43] I you know, i'm actually kind of impressed that 14 percent are female so good for them on that

[00:18:48] I you know in comparison to everybody else. It's it's better. It's not great

[00:18:56] My favorite the 2022

[00:18:59] nfl

[00:19:00] stats

[00:19:02] League office 41.3 percent women ceo president 9.4 percent women head coaches

[00:19:09] assistant coaches 1.9 percent hey girls. Hey

[00:19:13] general managers

[00:19:15] Team vice presidents 23.4 percent senior administrators 28.4 percent professional

[00:19:22] administration jobs 32.2 percent executive leadership 24.3 percent

[00:19:30] So let's break that down league office 41.3 percent got them in an a minus team vice presidents 23.4 percent got them a d plus

[00:19:40] senior administrators 28.4 percent got them a c

[00:19:44] professional administration jobs 32.2 percent got them a b minus

[00:19:49] c suite 24.3

[00:19:52] C minus ceo president 9.4 percent 9.4 percent f

[00:19:59] Not as bad as I thought it was going to be though

[00:20:02] Not as bad as I thought it was going to be again not great but

[00:20:07] major or I mean nfl obviously has something going on almost said major league soccer, but

[00:20:14] The american football we've somehow somewhere or someone figured that out. I guess

[00:20:19] all right

[00:20:20] 2022 wnba

[00:20:23] scorecard

[00:20:25] League offices 69.4 percent were women 75 percent were presidents and ceos

[00:20:30] 58.3 percent were head coaches

[00:20:34] ooh

[00:20:35] Yikes

[00:20:38] Not great there not great there assistant coaches 64.7 percent general managers

[00:20:44] 33.3 percent team vice presidents 48.3

[00:20:48] managers to senior directors 55.9 percent

[00:20:52] professional team staff which I would imagine is like the senior administration kind of staff 49.2 percent

[00:20:58] overall

[00:21:00] I feel like wnba did pretty well here

[00:21:03] except when it comes to

[00:21:05] general managers

[00:21:07] League office 65.4 got them an a plus team vice presidents 48.3 got them an a plus

[00:21:13] managers to senior directors 55.9 got them an a plus

[00:21:17] professional team staff 49.2 got them an a plus ceo president 75 got them an a plus

[00:21:24] general managers 33.3 got them a b minus head coaches 58.3 got them an a minus y'all that should be an f

[00:21:34] Okay, I won't I won't be that harsh that should be a c

[00:21:38] That should be a c

[00:21:40] Assistant coaches 70 or 64.7 percent gets them an a plus

[00:21:46] That's where we're at y'all that is where we are at

[00:21:50] And again, this is 2022 so there may be some other things

[00:21:55] That have

[00:21:58] Gone into this in the last couple of years where maybe these numbers have changed but I mean

[00:22:02] This isn't too far ago and too far back. So I think this is a great start

[00:22:07] You can only imagine what this series is going to

[00:22:10] Do to feel like it's not

[00:22:14] Going to be very easy. I'm going to make the case against

[00:22:20] Probably my better judgment and I'm sure against the better judgment of some

[00:22:26] They probably would not want me to talk about it

[00:22:29] But that's okay because we're not here to talk about things that are just going to make everybody feel so happy and lovely all the time

[00:22:34] We're going to talk about the hard things

[00:22:36] We're going to talk about the hard things

[00:22:38] So I'm going to point out that

[00:22:44] And I said it on the last episode

[00:22:47] If you're telling me

[00:22:48] That a man is capable

[00:22:52] Of coaching a female and knowing

[00:22:56] What is best for her

[00:22:59] Why can a woman not do the same for men in their respective sports?

[00:23:06] I don't get it. I I I don't get it

[00:23:09] There comes a point in every sport where it doesn't matter anatomically

[00:23:15] What's going on

[00:23:17] Xs or Xs and O's or O's the rules are the rules

[00:23:22] And the facts are the facts and if you all have a dog go pay your cheese tax, but

[00:23:29] There's there's nothing that makes someone's mind

[00:23:33] And having to know the Xs and O's and having to understand the game and know the rules

[00:23:38] And being able to see things and see the way it works. There's no reason why

[00:23:43] any

[00:23:45] Woman should not be able to do that for men's sports

[00:23:50] And if you tell me that they shouldn't then again, I'm going to look at you and go then explain to me why

[00:23:56] We got excited. Well, I didn't but it's a good thing that less than 60 percent

[00:24:02] of head coaches for a women's league

[00:24:05] The wnba are men or women. I'm sorry. So that still means that

[00:24:11] Of over 40 percent of those coaches are men

[00:24:15] So why why are those four out of 10?

[00:24:20] Just as equipped as women if you're not going to tell me that some of these women who know men's sports

[00:24:25] Aren't just as capable as their male counterparts

[00:24:28] So that's kind of where part of this is going to go the other part of where this is going to go is the racial makeup because

[00:24:37] Let me tell you that to me is even sillier than

[00:24:41] male female

[00:24:43] The color of someone's skin should have nothing to do at all

[00:24:48] With whether or not they can coach it just it shouldn't it absolutely should not and

[00:24:54] If any of y'all have taken the little dna test and figured out where you're from you should know that because last time I checked

[00:25:02] None of us were purely american because hey, we're a newer country

[00:25:07] But we all come from somewhere. We all are very diverse in our backgrounds and histories. So

[00:25:14] It's probably going to take me a little while to make sure that that episode and that

[00:25:18] Lesson in it

[00:25:20] And because it's probably going to be a lesson for a lot of people like let's just throw that one out there

[00:25:24] That one's probably going to be the one that's going to make a lot of people uncomfortable and I I'm okay with it

[00:25:29] It's not comfortable to read. Trust me. It's not comfortable reading it when I'm doing this research, but

[00:25:34] That episode and the story we're going to have to tell at that point

[00:25:41] I'm going to ask the question over and over again

[00:25:45] Why and make it make sense if you can make it make sense. Okay cool

[00:25:49] but

[00:25:51] I haven't seen any valid arguments for that. So we'll get to that to that at that point

[00:25:55] But I want to wrap this episode up with an email. I actually got from our women's ncda bracket winner coach deb

[00:26:04] She

[00:26:05] Has obviously by her instagram handle has been a coach and so I

[00:26:10] Asked her, you know what what some of her thoughts were on this and so i'm just going to read her

[00:26:16] Her email um and just kind of let you know

[00:26:19] She writes I just wanted to give you some insight on my coaching journey and my goal of becoming an athletic director

[00:26:25] Which I was never able to obtain and which I feel was directly related to me being a female

[00:26:31] I coached for 31 years won four state championships and had an undefeated season of 34 and 0

[00:26:37] I interviewed for two athletic directors positions at two different schools and in both cases men were chosen to be the athletic directors

[00:26:45] I had the same years of experience and the same level of educational degrees in both cases

[00:26:51] I had more success in my coaching career

[00:26:53] One applicant had had football coaching experience

[00:26:57] The other scenario the applicant had never had a winning season as a coach

[00:27:02] You would think a school would want their athletic director to have experienced success and know the ingredients for a winning culture

[00:27:10] In one of my interviews I was told by the superintendent that and I quote

[00:27:14] Women are taking over freaking everything end quote

[00:27:18] I knew that I didn't have a chance at that job and that my interview was a token interview

[00:27:23] After the man was chosen as the athletic director the superintendent told me that he expected to follow the directions and guidelines

[00:27:29] Of the new male ad

[00:27:31] I feel like in both interviews being a female hurt my chances of being taken seriously as a candidate

[00:27:37] Currently, I am an official of a women's sport that is dominated by male officials

[00:27:42] There are also more male coaches and female sports. I am not sure why there are fewer females in these professions

[00:27:47] I don't know if it's because women take care of their children or work in professions that don't allow them the ease of taking off from work

[00:27:54] To then also work as an official

[00:27:56] I have been thanked on more than one occasion by a mother for being an official that looks like her daughter

[00:28:01] Women outnumber men in society, but society totally accepts men officials and men coaches as the norm in women dominated sports

[00:28:09] It's a very rare occasion to have an all female officiating crew or coaching staff

[00:28:14] It is a big deal to see a female officiating or coaching a men's sport. Why?

[00:28:19] There's such a discrepancy and I don't have the answer

[00:28:22] Women officials and coaches are more than capable, but the opportunity is not there

[00:28:27] Title nine was supposed to be a guideline to even up the inequities

[00:28:31] However in 2024 we saw fewer female athletic directors officials and coaches females are still behind

[00:28:38] Also, I know one female coach who coaches boys basketball in

[00:28:42] A certain state

[00:28:44] She coaches at a small school and has won two state championships. I hope some of this helps

[00:28:49] Thanks for listening to me deb. I don't know that I can say anything else

[00:28:56] on this episode

[00:28:58] She just summed up

[00:29:01] That I've ever wanted to say

[00:29:03] So on that note

[00:29:05] You can always find us on instagram at the stare down underscore podcast

[00:29:09] You can find us on twitter at the stare down pod

[00:29:12] Send us an email at the stare down pod at gmail.com just like coach deb did you can also find us on facebook the

[00:29:20] stare down stare down is its own word one word but separate from the

[00:29:26] and

[00:29:27] Always always always make your mama proud and go to the alabama take dot com and check out the entire family of

[00:29:34] Podcasts that we have there for you. We've got some good stuff from some alabama linked professionals who just

[00:29:41] love what they're talking about

[00:29:43] so

[00:29:45] I hope y'all are ready for this

[00:29:47] I know I am

[00:29:49] It's going to be hard sometimes for me to put all of my thoughts into words, but i'm going to try and I hope you're ready for it

[00:29:54] so

[00:29:56] Sit back

[00:29:57] Relax

[00:29:58] Have a drink or two

[00:30:00] Thank you for listening to this stare down. Thank you for supporting women. Thank you for supporting women who love sports

[00:30:06] and uh

[00:30:07] I'll catch you next time where we dive into some harder topics. Y'all have a good week. Hotty totty. Bye